Roberto Martinez discussion

[Woolly Blue]

Final points total and positions consistent - if anything you could argue the league has gone backwards based on English teams in Europe.

The top clubs have fallen behind the rest of Europe but the middling clubs have better players than ten years ago. It doesn't explain why we can't defend for butterscotch though.

 

[roydo]

*ignoring the very hurtful words thrown in my direction like daggers....*

You're dealing in apples and pears there lad. If any ordinary employer has a word with any employee in the world of trade you can be almost certain that they;ll have some hands on experience of what they're having a word about. Not so our esteemed directors...unless you know they've all taken their coaching badges like.

No need to have any qualifications in what the employee is actually doing to notice things ain that great, and offering support, and encouragement to him. Hence the "This is Everton, not a Wigan plaything" line.

 

[Woolly Blue]

*ignoring the very hurtful words thrown in my direction like daggers....*

You're dealing in apples and pears there lad. If any ordinary employer has a word with any employee in the world of trade you can be almost certain that they;ll have some hands on experience of what they're having a word about. Not so our esteemed directors...unless you know they've all taken their coaching badges like.

Yet again ... no.
In fact, nay, nay and thrice nay.

I have people working for me doing stuff I'm not qualified to do, but I know if they're doing their jobs well and delivering or not.

I only insult you because I care about you. If I didn't care, I'd just ignore you.
It's for your own good and you'll thank me for it one day ... possibly

 

[D410]

Saying that though, Nigel Pearson was doing a great job before Ranieri, even Ranieri said when he came in he didn't change anything.

I like Ranieri, he's one of those manager who are hard to dislike no matter what they do, the funny thing is, when he was first being touted for Leicester it was mocked by most of the media.

The top 2 inches mate separates Pearson from Ranieri and I suspect if Ranieri was in charge of our club we would see similar.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

You could certainly argue the Sky clubs have. But not the league. By a mile, the most competitive serious league in Europe.

The top clubs have fallen behind the rest of Europe but the middling clubs have better players than ten years ago. It doesn't explain why we can't defend for butterscotch though.

We benefit from the exact same circumstance though lads...

You can only beat whats put in front of you.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

Ranieri was in charge of our club we would see similar.

We'll never know mate.

 

[roydo]

We benefit from the exact same circumstance though lads...

You can only beat whats put in front of you.

Oh sure. Not sure what this has to do with Martinez being a balloon/genius though!

Other than we are not beating that many put in front of us atm.

 

[davek]

Avg age of Moyes' inherited squad would have been older...

Gazza and co...

Same principle though.

I accept Martinez inherited a better squad than Moyes did. But they were not his players and (as with most incoming managers) he has a different method so had to adapt them to it. It was a hell of a first season. The defence has become a problem, for sure. But I'm pretty convinced that a half decent GK sorts most of the mess out. He (Martinez) will never want to operate a system that doesn't place the emphasis on attack, but that's not to say he cant keep clean sheets, as the first season proved.

 

[paultheblue]

You coto be uldn't make it up, could you?

On another, non club specific, forum I post on the consensus among the posters is that EFC is a top goalkeeper away from being a serious contender.

And I have been pointing out to some of the younger element on here that Bobby's Everton is way further down the road than Howard's Everton was after two and a half years at the helm.

Not that anyone wants to listen to anyone saying Rome wasn't built in a day

I do agree with much of what you say ,Howard Everton at this stage did not have the quality that the current side has but times have changed we will not be able to keep the current squad together unless we can win something this year.
The big difference between the 2 managers is that Kendall from day one showed the players who was boss buying Mickey Thomas (who was a big name at the time ) and getting rid right away when he refused to play for the reserves,the players could see he was the boss.
Roberto seems to be unable to drop Howard and it definitely seems to be a case of the tail wagging the dog.
I have run a business over 25 and I really dont care whether people like me or not I make decisions based on what is best for the business if you show weakness people take the piss.

 

[ianefc]

I mentioned it earlier, the problem is fans want instant success, and it doesn't work that way unless you have a bottomless pit of money, and even that doesn't guarantee instant success.

When you say

'fans want instant success'

I'm just wondering what you thought the main complaint of the 'Plotters' was.

When you say that, and admittedly I may have misinterpreted you, but it looks like you're saying certain poster/fans are moaning because we're not in the title race? What 'success' do you think we want that is such an outlandish hope for this squad?

It's interesting because a lot of posters will use extremes to prove why fans are being unrealistic and why Martinez 'isn't that bad'

From my point of view it's pretty simple our win ratio in the past 18 months has been terrible, averaging 1 win a month, I also worry about the effects of a 2nd season on the bounce that when completed could be deemed as below expectations for your average Evertonian... The saying used more and more is Rome wasn't built in a day, my worry is that Lukaku, Stones, Barkley and Deulofeu won't be hanging around for a 3rd and 4th course of the stone laying at the Colosseum, if you pardon the crap analogy.

 

[davek]

No need to have any qualifications in what the employee is actually doing to notice things ain that great, and offering support, and encouragement to him. Hence the "This is Everton, not a Wigan plaything" line.

But if that's all it was it isn't really worth mentioning. I'm sure it went on with Kenwright/Moyes (in fact I think it's well document by kenwright). So basically a mundane working relationship conversation has been seized on (not by you) to portray a manager teetering on the edge.

On reflection, I think that's the rub here.

 

[Woolly Blue]

We benefit from the exact same circumstance though lads...

You can only beat whats put in front of you.

Wouldn't disagree, but the quality's been squeezed up, which makes the margin for error smaller. We'd have got away with some of our defending against the middling sides a few years ago, because they wouldn't have been good enough to take advantage. Which is why it's so important to sort it out. I'm not convinced he will to be honest, a lot depends on how stubborn he is.

It's not going to be enough to spend a bit more time on the training ground working on our defence for a few weeks. It needs to be part of the regime, week in, week out. It's not fun, it's not sexy, but it needs doing and it will mean sacrificing some time working on ball skills to do it, which is why I'm not convinced that Roberto will look at it as a long term need.

 

[davek]

Yet again ... no.
In fact, nay, nay and thrice nay.

I have people working for me doing stuff I'm not qualified to do, but I know if they're doing their jobs well and delivering or not.

I only insult you because I care about you. If I didn't care, I'd just ignore you.
It's for your own good and you'll thank me for it one day ... possibly

...I know that. There's a master servant relationship going on here.

Cup of tea when you're ready kid.

 

[silent bob]

The top 2 inches mate separates Pearson from Ranieri and I suspect if Ranieri was in charge of our club we would see similar.

I`m a tad confused by the first half of that sentence. Are you trying to say you`ve seen both of them in the shower??

 

[Abraders]

When you say

'fans want instant success'

I'm just wondering what you thought the main complaint of the 'Plotters' was.

When you say that, and admittedly I may have misinterpreted you, but it looks like you're saying certain poster/fans are moaning because we're not in the title race? What 'success' do you think we want that is such an outlandish hope for this squad?

It's interesting because a lot of posters will use extremes for to prove why fans are being unrealistic and why Martinez 'isn't that bad'

From my point of view it's pretty simple our win ratio in the past 18 months has been terrible, averaging 1 win a month, I also worry about the effects of a 2nd season on the bounce that when completed could be deemed as below expectations for your average Evertonian... The saying used more and more is Rome wasn't built in a day, my worry is that Lukaku, Stones, Barkley and Deulofeu won't be hanging around for a 3rd and 4th course of the stone laying at the Colosseum, if you pardon the crap analogy.

This is a good post, I think most of the fans fears/ hate on Martinez is really down to a fear of losing these guys - because we can all see we have a great deal of talent here at the moment, and would like to see us winning games ugly if we have to, instead of 70% possession dominance every game but only drawing...

We could be top/4 right now if we just did some simple defensive things right on top of all the great attacking we did in the past 7 games or so.