Roberto Martinez discussion

[VentureBrosEFC]

The balance isn't there, I totally agree

The attack is stupendous and the defence isn't

I truthfully don't think it's beyond Martinez to get us defending better, but I think he'll need to do the following

Drop Howard

Get in a new defensive coach and give him/her enough autonomy to make the required changes

Get a more experienced CB in in case Jags goes down again

Progressive! Are you trying to impress your girlfriend?

 

[Titus Bramble]

Don't agree with you

You don't think we're doing better this season compared to last in any way?

 

[Saint Domingo]

But it was alright second half Mikey.

The first half was probably the worst performance of the season, utterly farcical.

On current form, we could (and everything crossed it ain't) be on 27 points from 22 games. It's a shocking waste of a talented squad.

27 points from 20 games with 11 of them at home. We're currently looking at hitting low 50s if we continue in the same form. It would take solid top 4 form from now until the end of the season to hit Daveks magical marker. This is the fallacy of all those saying 'yeah but we're only 6 points off....' Clawing that back in the second half of the season is always difficult unless we suddenly hit a run of form seeing us win 6 or 7 in a row.

 

[Titus Bramble]

Wasn't hard. 14/15 was one of the worst seasons in living memory considering the players we had available (waits for someone to draw a laughable comparison to Moyes' second season)

Yeah but what about Moyes' second seas... oh...

 

[hullefc]

Mate, I apologise but your lack of balance and common sense on this issue is so pronounced I just can't take anything you say about it seriously

For that reason, I feel it's pointless to debate you on it further

When you're willing to have a balanced discussion and not indulge in extreme fanboyism, let me know

I know there are certain subjects where people feel the same about me (Shane Duffy for instance) so don't take it personally. It's just pointless because of your intense dogmatism on the subject. If Martinez was good at setting us up defensively we wouldn't be 11th in the table.

Spurs away and Southampton were games where we easily could have shipped goals but Howard had his two good performances of the season to save us. Swansea and Newcastle are both tosh sides in the relegation mire. We SHOULD be keeping clean sheets against them.

We look shaky at the back and have done all season. We did defend better overall today but that's just one game. If we can keep city out for three games and defend well at Stamford Bridge, then you might have a point

Go away, calm down and come back with a reasoned argument that isn't just the same stat caked in massed hubris

Nice word fanboyism. I apologising for not agreeing with you about 'defensive organisation', bad fanboy me. A balanced view when talking about 'defensive organisation', would be to immediately point out when 'good defensive organisation' occurred and when it didn't throughout the season so far. Why it worked and why it didn't? Bandying 'defensive organisation' about when there is, seems absurd in the extreme. But heh doesn't fit in with the panacea.

'Could have shipped' means absolutely nothing and can't be taken seriously. As is could have bagged 2 against Swansea away, 1 against Spurs away, 4 against Norwich away and 3 more against Bournemouth.

Sorry but 'we did defend better overall today, but that's one game' is churlish and gives no credit to the players or the manager.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Progressive! Are you trying to impress your girlfriend?

I'm a modern man

 

[hullefc]

So come on then @hullefc , let's see this winning betting slip of yours.

For it to have come in, you must have been delighted when;

• Everton conceded an equaliser just before halftime - not much of a fan really
• Even more delighted we couldn't get a winner in the second half.

Come on chap, let's have a gander at the slip.

Keep up the good work, you're playing a blinder. An absolute blinder. A bit like Martinez today. When a team is set up good defensively do they tend to concede goals? And if they do how many? And how may they prevent goals going in? How could we have stopped Spurs goal today, dear chap?

 

[orly]

I don't disagree with any of this really however that team today stopped a very fluid spurs side from getting their top performers firing on all cylinders. It was a good point and the manager got it spot on.

Norwich, I'd blame Kone and Lukaku for missing sitters.
Bournemouth I'd blame the entire side for not dropping deep and stopping the cross.
Stoke I'd blame Martinez. We were so open.
Leicester I'd blame Martinez. We were so open.

I'm not advocating shielding Martinez from all criticism. The defence has been naive at times to say the least and that's his responsibility.

I'd repeat my first point though. Today he got it right. Today it was a good point.

If you believe that we should be battering them, and in not doing so and achieving your expectations you have a justified stick to beat the manager with then carry on.

Not battering them, no. Not said that at any point (pre-match, I was thinking 2-0 us, it's in the match thread).

Spurs were fantastic first half - but this is a Spurs side that has only won 4 away games this season from 10 games. Every team in the top half as the same amount or better. Those wins have come at Watford , Southampton, Bournemouth and Sunderland. Not what you'd call terrifying away fixtures.

It took him until the 60th minute to get it right. for the first 45 minutes of the game, it was wrong, utterly wrong.

I just can't see how we should be praising him for a point at home, particularly after the abject first half performance. Indeed, it needed the sub to come on and have a man of the match performance to keep it level.

What reason could he possibly have had to start Kone and Howard today? Play them in to form? They've been bottom of the barrel abysmal all season. How could Martinez not be criticized for this?

 

[mkrudden]

And why arnt we? For me its because we have a clown of a manager who can't organise a defence and has blind loyalty to a clearly past it goalkeeper amongst others.

A clown of a manager...

Who bought

Lukaku
Deulofeu
Barry
McCarthy
Funes Mori
Cleverley
Kone
Lennon


He isn't a clown but he has to wise up. I think he would have dropped Howard had Jagielka not got injured. There has been enough naivety in that defence without bringing another younger player in.

I have faith in him. You don't as is your right. I doubt you were calling him a clown when he brought in Rom or Geri though were you?

 

[orly]

Keep up the good work, you're playing a blinder. An absolute blinder. A bit like Martinez today. When a team is set up good defensively do they tend to concede goals? And if they do how many? And how may they prevent goals going in? How could we have stopped Spurs goal today, dear chap?

Yeah, how could we possibly have stopped a 60 yard pass on the stroke of time and one midfielder against two defenders. Mystery isn't it really.

What a blinder he played today hey, worst first half performance of the season and a home draw.

How about that betting slip mate? You know, the one where you hoped Everton wouldn't win on it.

 

[Kev The Rat]

the team essentially doesn't function without deulofeu playing for me he's as undroppable as barry and lukaku.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

He's definitely not a clown

Nor is He infallible

He's certainly stubborn in a lot of ways. That can be both a positive and a negative

We're sitting on a potentially great team here, but we're not quite there yet and won't be until Martinez sorts the defence out. Hopefully he does, because I think we can be a force in the game both domestically and in Europe

 

[Aar_the_Toffees]

the team essentially doesn't function without deulofeu playing for me he's as undroppable as barry and lukaku.

Lennon didn't need to be taken off for me. Besic coming on was the massive turning point as he competely changed the dynamic of the midfield. Cleverley moving to left also worked quite well- still a position we need to address but rather him than Kone.

I for one thought Mirallas would've made a positive difference in the latter stages.

 

[mkrudden]

Not battering them, no. Not said that at any point (pre-match, I was thinking 2-0 us, it's in the match thread).

Spurs were fantastic first half - but this is a Spurs side that has only won 4 away games this season from 10 games. Every team in the top half as the same amount or better. Those wins have come at Watford , Southampton, Bournemouth and Sunderland. Not what you'd call terrifying away fixtures.

It took him until the 60th minute to get it right. for the first 45 minutes of the game, it was wrong, utterly wrong.

I just can't see how we should be praising him for a point at home, particularly after the abject first half performance. Indeed, it needed the sub to come on and have a man of the match performance to keep it level.

What reason could he possibly have had to start Kone and Howard today? Play them in to form? They've been bottom of the barrel abysmal all season. How could Martinez not be criticized for this?

Howard is fair game. He looks shaky to say the least. You could even say the defense as a whole is fair game, including Coleman.

I just can't understand criticism of those front places when we score pretty much every game. Kone is a part of that. Is he the long term solution? Hell no. We need to be scouring for a Pienaar who can hold the ball up and bring others into play.

We scored again today though. Sure Kone wasn't involved directly, but we are a threat every single game. He is obviously aiding Lukaku. Mirrallas is the other option and he doesn't hold the ball up and isn't as selfless. He may bring 5 goals to the equation but I think to the detriment of our CF.

 

[orly]

Howard is fair game. He looks shaky to say the least. You could even say the defense as a whole is fair game, including Coleman.

I just can't understand criticism of those front places when we score pretty much every game. Kone is a part of that. Is he the long term solution? Hell no. We need to be scouring for a Pienaar who can hold the ball up and bring others into play.

We scored again today though. Sure Kone wasn't involved directly, but we are a threat every single game. He is obviously aiding Lukaku. Mirrallas is the other option and he doesn't hold the ball up and isn't as selfless. He may bring 5 goals to the equation but I think to the detriment of our CF.

But we won't get results without a balanced side. We are great going forward but we have to be if we must score three (or more!) at home to win.

We've seen it on a grotesque scale at other teams (like Blackpool a few years ago) where it's all about entertaining... and ultimately not getting the results.

He just does not have a track record of being able to fix a leaking defence. He called the defending 'immense' today. For only conceding the one goal! Where's the change in mentality then? It was one goal too many for getting us a win at home.

Arguably today, our best period of sustained threat was after Kone had gone off.