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Roberto Martinez discussion

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im finding it really hard to see were we are going wrong. great going forward, Rom is on fire, solid mid, and solid defence, we really aren't bad at defencing, we just seem to be giving goals away atm. its very easy to put this on Martinez and howard but is it realy there faults?
defeding starts from the front, so the fact the ball has even gotton to howard is a problem.
I think Martinez has done a great job witht he football we are playing.
I think its the middle two, barry mainly.
hes been doing well, but unless hes in the right position, there is no way he is chasing back to defend atall. good on the ball, great passer, keeps the play going, but as soon as we are on the back foot (mainly counter attacks) we are [Poor language removed] because barry, the holding midfielder, is toooooo slow to get back, chase down, and defend.
 

LinekersLegs said:
For most opposition I'd agree but City and Spurs are pretty high scorers being 1st and 5th in the league respectively.

If we'd been playing Villa I wouldn't have mentioned it!
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Sorry didn't mean for it to sound as harsh as it read back, was meant in a jokey tone.
Agree with you that we are getting better at the back last few days.. Though its a sign of the times though when people are including stats of only conceding 1 goal in consecutive games as a sign of improvement.

We are however looking far more solid last few games, we still make stupid mistakes every game but looking much better.
 
DylanMachell said:
im finding it really hard to see were we are going wrong. great going forward, Rom is on fire, solid mid, and solid defence, we really aren't bad at defencing, we just seem to be giving goals away atm. its very easy to put this on Martinez and howard but is it realy there faults?
defeding starts from the front, so the fact the ball has even gotton to howard is a problem.
I think Martinez has done a great job witht he football we are playing.
I think its the middle two, barry mainly.
hes been doing well, but unless hes in the right position, there is no way he is chasing back to defend atall. good on the ball, great passer, keeps the play going, but as soon as we are on the back foot (mainly counter attacks) we are [Poor language removed] because barry, the holding midfielder, is toooooo slow to get back, chase down, and defend.
Click to expand...

Thing is.. right now, we are not going wrong.
Earlier in the season we had done plenty wrong.. top of the list was that we couldn't defend.. at all.. that it all gets put on Howard is just a small view of a bigger problem, Barry's pace again is just a microcosm of a badly designed defensive setup that simply doesn't defend.
Game after game I find myself watching as few as two players attack our 4 defenders, 2 DM's and Goalkeeper, with one running with the ball not getting closed down, and passing to the other one amidst all those Everton players who give him enough space to control it.
Game after game I see players running at our back 4 and we back off and back off until they shoot, then fling themselves in front of the shot.
Opponents often get so much time Howard gets no chance.
Talking of Howard, time after time a cross is floated in for Howard to claim but he stands on his line forcing our defence to react when its not necessary, often conceding a corner, or possession in the box, or worse a goal.

Our defensive problems have been widespread, showboating defenders, bad defenders, not closing down defenders and midfielders, injuries, slow DMs, bad marking, non existent keepers for crosses and so on... BUT.. and its a big but.... Last few games, we have looked a lot better and whilst we still give too much room, signs are starting to appear of a team that can actually defend. As well as maintaining our style of football as we did first half against City.

If we carry that on into games against lesser opponents, I think we will start to really kick on. So whilst I agree Barry is a bit slow at times, he's still quality and not the reason we have done so badly, or at least not on his own. Well imo anyway.
 
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Ihaters said:
Thing is.. right now, we are not going wrong.
Earlier in the season we had done plenty wrong.. top of the list was that we couldn't defend.. at all.. that it all gets put on Howard is just a small view of a bigger problem, Barry's pace again is just a microcosm of a badly design defensive setup that simply doesn't close defend.
Game after game I find myself watching as few as two players attack our 4 defenders, 2 DM's and Goalkeeper, with one running with the ball not getting closed down, and passing to the other one amidst all those Everton players who give him enough space to control it.
Game after game I see players running at our back 4 and we back off and back off until they shoot, then fling themselves in front of the shot.
They often get so much time Howard gets no chance.
Talking of Howard, time after time a cross is floated in for Howard to claim but he stands on his line forcing our defence to react when its not necessary, often conceding a corner, or possession in the box, or worse a goal.

Our defensive problems have been widespread, showboating defenders, bad defenders, not closing down defenders and midfielders, injuries, slow DMs, bad marking, non existent keepers for crosses and so on... BUT.. and its a big but.... Last few games, we have looked a lot better and whilst we still give too much room, signs are starting to appear of a team that can actually defend. As well as maintaining our style of football as we did first half against City.

If we carry that on into games against lesser opponents, I think we will start to really kick on. So whilst I agree Barry is a bit slow at times, he's still quality and not the reason we have done so badly, or at least not on his own. Well imo anyway.
Click to expand...

110% agree with everything you've just said!!
and in regards with the standing off, when wingers get down the side against our LB&RB they never close the player down, bains being the main culprit, stands 5/10 yards away, hoping to block the cross, im a LB myself and the last thing you want is to give a winger time and room.
the way we played agasint city in the cup was brilliant, I think besic was the main difference in regards to standing off players. yaya running right through and them runs usually end up in a goal, besic pulled out a great tackle and done that the most of the game, he made a real big difference for me.
 
Ihaters said:
Thing is.. right now, we are not going wrong.
Earlier in the season we had done plenty wrong.. top of the list was that we couldn't defend.. at all.. that it all gets put on Howard is just a small view of a bigger problem, Barry's pace again is just a microcosm of a badly designed defensive setup that simply doesn't defend.
Game after game I find myself watching as few as two players attack our 4 defenders, 2 DM's and Goalkeeper, with one running with the ball not getting closed down, and passing to the other one amidst all those Everton players who give him enough space to control it.
Game after game I see players running at our back 4 and we back off and back off until they shoot, then fling themselves in front of the shot.
Opponents often get so much time Howard gets no chance.
Talking of Howard, time after time a cross is floated in for Howard to claim but he stands on his line forcing our defence to react when its not necessary, often conceding a corner, or possession in the box, or worse a goal.

Our defensive problems have been widespread, showboating defenders, bad defenders, not closing down defenders and midfielders, injuries, slow DMs, bad marking, non existent keepers for crosses and so on... BUT.. and its a big but.... Last few games, we have looked a lot better and whilst we still give too much room, signs are starting to appear of a team that can actually defend. As well as maintaining our style of football as we did first half against City.

If we carry that on into games against lesser opponents, I think we will start to really kick on. So whilst I agree Barry is a bit slow at times, he's still quality and not the reason we have done so badly, or at least not on his own. Well imo anyway.
Click to expand...

Good post. That is how I see it. We back off and defend areas rather than closing down quickly. Spot on. I am sure we will improve on that side in due course.
 

Lanolin said:
I've been pleased with the last few performances and I don't think it's any coincidence that we've improved since adding more balance to the side with Besic and left sided players who allow us to keep our shape.

I'm still not convinced that he's had an epiphany though, we've seen him shut up shop against the big sides before (for all the talk of a change in mentality our performances away at the better sides are very rarely any different to they were under Moyes), it's whether he's willing to keep the same structure against lesser sides or whether we'll be back to gung ho madness when we play Swansea in a couple of weeks.
Click to expand...
Horses for courses. I'd ne amazed and annoyed if he didn't approach pony sides like that with an all out attacking display to gain the initiative and run a few goals in. The type of defensive resilience we've seen in the last few weeks should only be seen in games like that when we have built up such leads.
 

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