Roberto Martinez discussion

[NEC]

Apart from the fact Rom quite clearly is trapping the ball and holding possession much much better than we he joined. I´m sorry, but we have bought a young player who isn´t the finished article even if he did cost a lot. We will just have to put up with some of these flaws, not stop passing it to him with his back to goal and ensuring he never grows in that part of his game.

And what a manager says post match means nothing. Some fans better get used to the fact that their own off the chart fuming will never be met by what our manager says in an interview and what he says in an interview won´t always reflect what he says behind doors.

Seriously don´t know why fans are looking to a post match interview for reassurances....

What is this finished articel nonsense? Finished article in football usually means - intelligence, movement, tactical nouse, physical maturity, the icing on the cake.

Not the bloody ability to control a football - that is completely ridiculous. Its not even half decent his touch, its absolutely awful. Defenders know this and therefore stick tight to him to pressure him and nick the ball off him. Ashley Williams had a field day with him. Its a fundamental part of being a footballer - he can't control a ball at 21.

He has probably played off the shoulder as a striker all his life and relied on his comparitive power and pace to people his own age. It sticks out like a sore thumb.

Apart from him, Osman is finished as a first team choice, as is Hibbert, Distin needs a rocket, McGeady can get his finger out...

 

[Moomin]

The general view it seems is about Martinez's lack of ability as a manager to defend when his team is attacking. This is based on the fact Wigan shipped goals and went down playing pretty football, much can be compared to us.

I see the problem being 3 yeatrs in the making. We knew distin would have to drop his performances as he got older yet as a club we did nothing. Now we have no replacement apart from a young lad or a crap injury prone cheap player. I see Martinez's biggest weakness since becoming our manager is not identifying this problem and looking to change it. I get why we signed alcaraz, i love the fact stones gets game time. up until this season the defence was not the issue we had but every problem we have regarding it has hit us all at the same time. The errors we are making as well worry me because its not bad defending we are doing, its us costing ourselves the goals.


But the other major worrying this is where the goals seem to come from. not to make them all scapegoats but Distin has cost us goals blatently in every game he has played through poor performances and terrible mistakes. Osman letting Boliase steal the ball from him ala sunderland last year and tonys inability to cope with a half decent wide player last night. It is all the older players that are being shown up and we have no replacements. the worst thing is there is no money to really sign replacements either so thats it now for the season. One or two injuries and its tits up for the team so to speak.



So for all the shouters out there, would you have taken Cleverley and a new centre half over osman and distin based on the start of the season? Can you see them improving over the season or just getting worse? the hibbert one was aknowledged by most but the other two certainly up for debate.


the only thing that stopped Sylvan retiring or going back to france to end his career is the fact we still promised him the first team, and now its backfiring on us.

And the only reason why Osman is not playing in the championship now is because he came through the club. The lad cant play for 90 minutes, gives the ball away and clearly now doesnt sprint after it anymore, his shooting is quite poor when we do create chances and we cant base his place in the squad on the basis of one or two good things he does now and again because there is plenty of players in the lower leagues who can do the same job for a third of the money and the desire to make it up in the top league. We need 90 minute players and Leon isnt one of them and hasnt been for a couple of seasons now.



But only everton do we not care about these things and hope nothing changes.

I think its rather cruel to just blame Distan, its the whole team as a defensive unit that needs to shoulder the blame not just the back four.

 

[polish]

I just recalled history of Juande Ramos when he was in charge at Spurs. Now I'm terrified because it sounds very similar to us. Why I'm doing it to myself?

 

[Khalekan]

No offence mate but this post is utter bobbins.

You say "no offence" then proceed to offend the bloke.

I bet there are no Evertonians on Man United boards offering opinions on what is going wrong with their defence of telling them that conceding five at newly promoted Leicester is "unacceptable"

You have enough to worry about with your own team, the team which has spent a quarter of a billion quid in just over a year.

Happen you should go offer your sage advice to the denizens of Red Cafe.

 

[Ashtonian]

I think its rather cruel to just blame Distan, its the whole team as a defensive unit that needs to shoulder the blame not just the back four.

Yes very cruel to blame the defender who allows a centre forward to head the ball without jumping despite stood next to him.

Or failing to clear against Lesiecter well enough (which we all thought was bad luck and an isolated incident at the time)

Or heading the ball against his crossbar with a diving header when it was easier to kick it into touch in 3 different directions.


Not like that is 3 separate games this season he has played where he has directly cost us goals? By my count that is 4 points and at least a chance of progressing in the cup he has directly cost us so far.

So why not blame him?

 

[Moomin]

Yes very cruel to blame the defender who allows a centre forward to head the ball without jumping despite stood next to him.

Or failing to clear against Lesiecter well enough (which we all thought was bad luck and an isolated incident at the time)

Or heading the ball against his crossbar with a diving header when it was easier to kick it into touch in 3 different directions.


Not like that is 3 separate games this season he has played where he has directly cost us goals? By my count that is 4 points and at least a chance of progressing in the cup he has directly cost us so far.

So why not blame him?

The Giroud header is the first one i think, the one which Jags shouts for and misses the header. Hard to solely blame Distan for that when we allowed the cross to come in and Jags missed his header.

The Leicester one was a bad clearance.

As for costing us progressing in the league cup, i'm not having that at all. Swansea were by far the better team than us, we were awful all over the pitch.

I know people like having scapegoats, but as a team we have been quite shocking defensively and not just the back four. We replace Distan and it will not solve the issue. Teams are letting us have the ball and hitting us quickly on the break.

 

[Kev The Rat]

I just recalled history of Juande Ramos when he was in charge at Spurs. Now I'm terrified because it sounds very similar to us. Why I'm doing it to myself?

I view martinez as mike walker mk2 for those of you old enough to remember possibly the worst managerial reign in our history

 

[Boss_Blue]

I view martinez as mike walker mk2 for those of you old enough to remember possibly the worst managerial reign in our history

 

[bicycleheader]

It could be just like you're takling, but don't you have a worry that one bad season could mean we are about to implode? I mean how many of our players will want to stay here if we finish somewhere around 8th? I can see Mirallas, McCarthy, Coleman and even Barkley and Stones with a desire to leaving. It's how things works these days - if we want to keep them, we have to still improving as a team. Otherwise we will lose them and we can easily turn into another Sunderland or Villa.

That's why I don't underestimate our very poor start. I hope with all my heart I'm wrong but things are starting to worry me.

No, I´m not overyly worrying. I don´t like it at all, but I´m not going to stress on it.

So far we have had one very good season, with one slightly bad patch at Xmas, and now a bad start to the second season.

Certainly one bad season could point to worse things to come, but I would assess that at the end of the season, I´m not going to lose the head now.

 

[Ashtonian]

The Giroud header is the first one i think, the one which Jags shouts for and misses the header. Hard to solely blame Distan for that when we allowed the cross to come in and Jags missed his header.

The Leicester one was a bad clearance.

As for costing us progressing in the league cup, i'm not having that at all. Swansea were by far the better team than us, we were awful all over the pitch.

I know people like having scapegoats, but as a team we have been quite shocking defensively and not just the back four. We replace Distan and it will not solve the issue. Teams are letting us have the ball and hitting us quickly on the break.

And it is views like this within the club to why we are doing so badly.

We are NOT doing bad defending. We are giving goals away, there is a difference. We are not performing badly as a team, we are letting wingers rob us of the ball, letting strikers have the easiest header all their career, we are back heeling it into the strikers path. if we dont do it then the other team DOESNT score. Major difference to why we are losing.


And yeah one off ditin id let it go, but every game we are blaming for something and you still dont think anything is really his fault? So the fact that he is 37 and probably not able to perform like he did 2-3 year ago isnt a factor here?

As for the league cup, probably would have still gone out of the game yeah. But there is a difference between 1 and 2-0 and Disitn diving header made that difference meaning we were then chasing a game that we couldnt win. Instead 1-0 and swansea back off during the second half giving at the very least our record signing chance to get at them a bit more. What ifs completely but just like neville knocked us out of the F.A cup a couple of years ago distin helped do that last night.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

I view martinez as mike walker mk2 for those of you old enough to remember possibly the worst managerial reign in our history

Mike Walker win percentage at Everton = 17%

Martinez win percentage at Everton = 52%

Yes mate I can see the obvious similarities.....the fact that he's taken us to the brink of relegation........oh wait

 

[Ashtonian]

The Giroud header is the first one i think, the one which Jags shouts for and misses the header. Hard to solely blame Distan for that when we allowed the cross to come in and Jags missed his header.

The Leicester one was a bad clearance.

As for costing us progressing in the league cup, i'm not having that at all. Swansea were by far the better team than us, we were awful all over the pitch.

I know people like having scapegoats, but as a team we have been quite shocking defensively and not just the back four. We replace Distan and it will not solve the issue. Teams are letting us have the ball and hitting us quickly on the break.

And replace distin and we wont improve?

Might i remind you it took a world class free kick to beat us when he didnt play against the germans? Or the clean sheet agaisnt west brom? I would argue differently!

 

[bicycleheader]

What is this finished articel nonsense? Finished article in football usually means - intelligence, movement, tactical nouse, physical maturity, the icing on the cake.

Not the bloody ability to control a football - that is completely ridiculous. Its not even half decent his touch, its absolutely awful. Defenders know this and therefore stick tight to him to pressure him and nick the ball off him. Ashley Williams had a field day with him. Its a fundamental part of being a footballer - he can't control a ball at 21.

He has probably played off the shoulder as a striker all his life and relied on his comparitive power and pace to people his own age. It sticks out like a sore thumb.

Apart from him, Osman is finished as a first team choice, as is Hibbert, Distin needs a rocket, McGeady can get his finger out...

yeah fair enough, I would always say first touch and controlling possession should be a basic starting point. But I think my point still stands that he has improved hugely. He didn´t have much support sometimes and Williams covered him well. However I also saw, and have seen this season, moments where he trapped the ball and made space from the covering player, enough to turn and look forward. To me he has improved, and there is no way his touch is absolutely awful

Agree on Hibbert and Ossie. Distin will probably have some more good games in the shirt, but I don´t think he will be first choice for much longer. McGeady is too weak-willed I think, and is not the player to drag a team out of a slump as Kev has shown he may be. McGeady will be usefull at other points of the season though.

 

[bicycleheader]

I view martinez as mike walker mk2 for those of you old enough to remember possibly the worst managerial reign in our history

I hope you make it out of this vortex of despair some day.

Thankfully the actual Kev the Rat had some cojones, and didn´t press the panic button like this.

 

[Moomin]

And replace distin and we wont improve?

Might i remind you it took a world class free kick to beat us when he didnt play against the germans? Or the clean sheet agaisnt west brom? I would argue differently!

Seriously, West Brom were awful and they should have scored when McCarthy set them up.

Wolfsburg we were lucky to concede just the one with the amount of chances they had.

I'm not saying Distan is innocent, just saying the whole team defensively is awful at the moment.