Roberto Martinez discussion

[nsno-chris]

If you want to freak out over a bad patch of form, even though you say you´ve seen worse times in your life as an everton fan, and start bringing up the boring cliche of the Wigan defence then fine. Have fun, knock yourself out. It´s one thing discussing tactics or what you see need changing, it´s another going off on one knocking the manager who I would hope most fans who have seen the crap times at this club would give more time and patience to given the season and the players gave us last season.

You're hilarious; the manager picks the team and selects the tactics, if they're wrong then he's the one who takes the critics. I'm not saying i want him sacked, i've never said that, i want him to address the issue that is blatant, thats his job.

Why are you finding it so hard to seperate the 2.

For all your talk of big holes in the middle and tactical "nightmares", it is still a very valid and fair point that a large amount of the goals have just been individual errors that would not normally all happen in one period. In my opinion, as I won´t be throwing around facts Rafastyle here.

hahaha yeah, 13 goals in the goal from 13 individual errors; ok pal. Its not a valid point because I've seen the 13 goals we've conceeded and the majority could have been stopped higher up the pitch. Thats the issue, something which is bypassing you.

Take the Fraizer Campbell goal against Palace, now we all agree that Howard should have caught the ball; rewind 30 seconds. The centre back, 35 yards from goal plays the ball out to the full back on the halfway line, unchallenged, who then travels 20 yards down the flank, unchallenged, and punts and imless ball into the box. Last season he wouldn't have been allowed to travel that far without a midfielder closing him down and forcing him back.

The same last night, against chelsea, wolfsburg, even periods against Leicester and West Brom.

Thats tactics, thats what need to be addressed, players having to much space to run at us.

If you can't see that then keep living in cloud cuckoo land

 

[Khalekan]

I view martinez as mike walker mk2 for those of you old enough to remember possibly the worst managerial reign in our history

Fear not.

Big Joe is already in situ so come November we could have Dogs Of War....The Return

 

[Khalekan]

And it is views like this within the club to why we are doing so badly.

We are NOT doing bad defending. We are giving goals away, there is a difference. We are not performing badly as a team, we are letting wingers rob us of the ball, letting strikers have the easiest header all their career, we are back heeling it into the strikers path. if we dont do it then the other team DOESNT score. Major difference to why we are losing.

This....with knobs on.

 

[Saint Domingo]

You must be ****ing joking. Just saying.

Not really, a bit tongue in cheek about the kids at Anfield bit but then again would they be worse than what we saw last night from Hibbert and Alcaraz.

Three fixtures. Palace, Swansea, Liverpool. Martinez has prioritised the hardest of these because the fans like this game. If we win we have three points. That's a huge of by the way given our record there and the choice of referee. If we had prioritised the other two even before the game we could be sitting here with three points and a place in the cup.

In the first scenario no one is bothered as long as we beat Liverpool. In the second everyone fumes at Martinez if he loses at Liverpool despite the fact our return over three games is greater.

This is just pure yribalism at the cost of what is of greater benefit to Everton. Again with Moyes had we gone out to Sunderland but battered Liverpool most people would have been alright with it.

My point is trophy wins over wins against Liverpool. Both would be nice but only fools and Everton managers seem to value the latter more.

 

[Moomin]

And it is views like this within the club to why we are doing so badly.

We are NOT doing bad defending. We are giving goals away, there is a difference. We are not performing badly as a team, we are letting wingers rob us of the ball, letting strikers have the easiest header all their career, we are back heeling it into the strikers path. if we dont do it then the other team DOESNT score. Major difference to why we are losing.


And yeah one off ditin id let it go, but every game we are blaming for something and you still dont think anything is really his fault? So the fact that he is 37 and probably not able to perform like he did 2-3 year ago isnt a factor here?

As for the league cup, probably would have still gone out of the game yeah. But there is a difference between 1 and 2-0 and Disitn diving header made that difference meaning we were then chasing a game that we couldnt win. Instead 1-0 and swansea back off during the second half giving at the very least our record signing chance to get at them a bit more. What ifs completely but just like neville knocked us out of the F.A cup a couple of years ago distin helped do that last night.

Missed this the first time, thanks to @Khalekan for replying to it.

I think giving goals away is bad defending when i last checked. Anyway, thanks for my new signature.

 

[Ashtonian]

Missed this the first time, thanks to @Khalekan for replying to it.

I think giving goals away is bad defending when i last checked. Anyway, thanks for my new signature.

lol

there is a difference. Bad defending is not being able to cope with the other team.

Giving the goals away is diving headers in the 6 yard box.

Case and point, west Brom DIDNT score. Wolfsburg DIDNT score in open play. That means the defence is doing its job against that team. Hell naismith gave their free kick away so a strikers tackle normally results in free kicks, at least he was trying.

Distin heads the ball or deals with giroud who he is clearly marking, we beat arsenal. If all 3 mistakes dont happen against Crystal Palace we win, as in keeper flapping, osman just not being arsed and the terrible penalty. I'll give you the pen then for bad defeding, the other 2 was unenforced and therefore individual mistakes.

the ONLY bad defensive display i have seen this season bar last night (which wasnt really our defence) was chelsea. Other than that players making stupid errors costs us.

 

[Moomin]

lol

there is a difference. Bad defending is not being able to cope with the other team.

Giving the goals away is diving headers in the 6 yard box.

Case and point, west Brom DIDNT score. Wolfsburg DIDNT score in open play. That means the defence is doing its job against that team. Hell naismith gave their free kick away so a strikers tackle normally results in free kicks, at least he was trying.

Distin heads the ball or deals with giroud who he is clearly marking, we beat arsenal. If all 3 mistakes dont happen against Crystal Palace we win, as in keeper flapping, osman just not being arsed and the terrible penalty. I'll give you the pen then for bad defeding, the other 2 was unenforced and therefore individual mistakes.

the ONLY bad defensive display i have seen this season bar last night (which wasnt really our defence) was chelsea. Other than that players making stupid errors costs us.

Sky news have just said

" ISIS are not killing people, they are just shooting them in the head, there is a difference "

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Has someone actually compared Martinez to Mike F'ing Walker?

FFS

 

[tommye]

I view martinez as mike walker mk2 for those of you old enough to remember possibly the worst managerial reign in our history

 

[Smiggs]

I think its the amount of simple goals we are conceding that is the worrying part. Its like knife thru butter

oh i agree with the goals, but 5 of them come from the champions, not making up excuses.. but i think Jags/Stones partership with grow strong

 

[Ashtonian]

Sky news have just said

" ISIS are not killing people, they are just shooting them in the head, there is a difference "

Ok then is Besic doesnt back heel the ball to Costa, would costa have scored from that passage of play?

Would Giroud would have scored if the man marking him actually marked him? None of this jags shouted, there was a reason why distin was stood where he was.

Would Sigurrdson score in that attack if distin doesnt do a diving header? I mean he nearly scored himself!

Does Campbell score if Howard jumping un apposed punches or catches the ball?

Does Boalese score if osman wasnt stood still with the ball for some reason? Or if osman tries to chase him afterwards?

Theres 5 examples of unenforced errors, where it wasnt the defence it was the man who gave the goal away. MAjor difference between that and two centre halves not picking their man up and having them run in behind them for example.

And those 5 examples, 4 of them cost us points / the cup run.

 

[Moomin]

Ok then is Besic doesnt back heel the ball to Costa, would costa have scored from that passage of play?

Would Giroud would have scored if the man marking him actually marked him? None of this jags shouted, there was a reason why distin was stood where he was.

Would Sigurrdson score in that attack if distin doesnt do a diving header? I mean he nearly scored himself!

Does Campbell score if Howard jumping un apposed punches or catches the ball?

Does Boalese score if osman wasnt stood still with the ball for some reason? Or if osman tries to chase him afterwards?

Theres 5 examples of unenforced errors, where it wasnt the defence it was the man who gave the goal away. MAjor difference between that and two centre halves not picking their man up and having them run in behind them for example.

And those 5 examples, 4 of them cost us points / the cup run.

Once again, we were crap to put it bluntly last night. That one error did not cost us the game. We were crap.

The 5 examples are all bad defending.

Anyway, I'm going to watch Franco Baresi discuss our defensive masterclass v Chelsea.

" Jack the ripper never killed laides of the night, he just gave them a makeover with a knife, there is a difference!!! "

 

[bicycleheader]

You're hilarious; the manager picks the team and selects the tactics, if they're wrong then he's the one who takes the critics. I'm not saying i want him sacked, i've never said that, i want him to address the issue that is blatant, thats his job.

Why are you finding it so hard to seperate the 2.



hahaha yeah, 13 goals in the goal from 13 individual errors; ok pal. Its not a valid point because I've seen the 13 goals we've conceeded and the majority could have been stopped higher up the pitch. Thats the issue, something which is bypassing you.

Take the Fraizer Campbell goal against Palace, now we all agree that Howard should have caught the ball; rewind 30 seconds. The centre back, 35 yards from goal plays the ball out to the full back on the halfway line, unchallenged, who then travels 20 yards down the flank, unchallenged, and punts and imless ball into the box. Last season he wouldn't have been allowed to travel that far without a midfielder closing him down and forcing him back.

The same last night, against chelsea, wolfsburg, even periods against Leicester and West Brom.

Thats tactics, thats what need to be addressed, players having to much space to run at us.

If you can't see that then keep living in cloud cuckoo land

I didnt say all goals were individual errors.

Good breakdown of the goal. Fair enough, possibly it´s like that. But the reasons for space, for less pressing and seeming disorganisation? You can´t 100% put that on the boss and say its a "tactical nightmare" when after years and years of watching football you know that perhaps they are just in poor form and in a really bad moment. Start badly, struggle with confidence. Get killed by a bad error in a bad moment and lose even more confidence. Continue until a spark happens....like a good derby performance for example.

I am not on this side saying I am 100% right, unlike your good self.

I am simply not going to overworry about the things you are when I know from last season that we have a very good manager and a good squad and believe it will come good.

My problem is with the general over reaction on here, as I would see it, and as I saw your own original post. Don´t jump to conclusions about what I think, exaggerate comments I make nor worry about what age I am.

 

[banno]

oh i agree with the goals, but 5 of them come from the champions, not making up excuses.. but i think Jags/Stones partership with grow strong

Here's hoping but it is still alarming that we are conceding so freely when we were known as being tight.

 

[By god I'm blue]

We have lost 3 games, yes conceded a lot of goals in the process, but I am not panicking just yet.

Some of the things being said about Martinez in here are pathetic....Mike Walker? lol He just got us our highest points tally in how long a few games ago!