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Roberto Martinez discussion

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Martinez came in and said he understood everton and got the fans, sounded good but hey it has been two fingers up to us for the past two seasons. he is not listening and actually getting worse. drop stones drop howard drop baines drop barkley drop barry, thy can and should be dropped at different times, regardless of playing well or not, it is about keeping the team fresh and always on their toes. today we played a just coming back from injury coleman, cleverly and piennar, baines who cant cross anymore yet persists with it and the team insist on keep passing to him to do it. stones who has been making mistakes a lot recently and howard the less said the better. That is nota top four team, no more youngsters coming through that Martinez is relying on moyes selections to win the games. well that didn't work for moyes and will not work now. other teams have tactics Martinez doesn't or the players don't follow it well then you have a serious problem Martinez and you will be sacked or lose the fans and team. why persist with howard every match why not even seeonce if robles will get you a win my god man are you that stubborn well I personally hate this everton team at the moment it is shocking and have never felt this angry and I don't like it
 
Lukaku will be gone before the end of the window IMO. Who would want to play for a rag bag mid table side when he could be playing in the last 16 of the CL. Wouldn't be surprised to see him hand in a request.
 
That's if the ownership changes

True, there is defo an "if" in there.

Anyway, the whole ownership thing is really for another thread, but, as far as Martinez' position goes, I think most people would recognise his job is safe under the current board, but nowhere near as safe if the club's owners change.
 
Good for you mate

Well why not?

We beat them in the first leg, then we went to the Etihad and kept a clean sheet in the league, we then went to Stamford Bridge and would have won if not for a couple of bad decisions.

We all know the results haven't been great, but we've got a very good team who are capable of beating anyone.

Could I not claim to be the one arguing with "realism"?
 

For the people saying they would prefer Moyes or that under Moyes we wouldnt be in this position...

I would prefer to have Martinez as he puts out exciting teams with exciting players but most importantly can see he is building something which with a few changes and additions could seriously challenge the top 4.

For me, next season has always been the season where he will have "his" squad and money to spend with alot of outgoings...

Id rather give him that time than settle for 5th or below every year under someone like Moyes.
 
I think that if we don't make that final, more of the fan base will turn on him

That being said, it wouldn't change anything

Again, we will NEVER sack him while this current board is in place

It won't happen. You can all vault me if you like, but I'm supremely confident that he's not getting sacked no matter what happens

Good for you mate
 
For the people saying they would prefer Moyes or that under Moyes we wouldnt be in this position...

I would prefer to have Martinez as he puts out exciting teams with exciting players but most importantly can see he is building something which with a few changes and additions could seriously challenge the top 4.

For me, next season has always been the season where he will have "his" squad and money to spend with alot of outgoings...

Id rather give him that time than settle for 5th or below every year under someone like Moyes.

Erm....if you can't even attempt to challenge this season, there is no chance in hell that he'll do it in years to come.

And you are settling for below 5th every year.

Moyes always needed that extra bit.

Martinez has it but in place of the basics Moyes had.
 

https://evertonopinion.wordpress.com/2016/01/24/time-for-martinez-to-change-or-go/

In December 2014 I wrote a rare article, highlighting several issues in the team, but concluding that it would be “nonsensical to sack Martinez at this stage”, and that the Spaniard deserved more time after his brilliant first season at the club. Well, here we are 13 months on, and very little has changed. One thing that has though, is my and many others’ stance on the manager – who I now believe is actively harming the prospects of the team on an unbelievable level.

Many of those issues remain, although some of them are much less understandable now than they were 13 months ago. For instance, at that point I rationalised that it would have been difficult for Martinez to predict the extent of the decline of Tim Howard from good Premier League goalkeeper to worst human in the World – but since then there have been 3 transfer windows and seemingly no attempt to replace the now 36-year-old. Joel Robles has established himself as a reliable fan favourite whose presence leads to a more confident defence and has contributed largely to the one redeeming aspect of this miserable season, but Martinez still persists with Howard. Worse still, he comes out every other week with some infuriating and hypocritical tripe about how experience is more important than ability, or how Howard never blames defenders for his mistakes (???). In fairness, he’s probably too busy sarcastically applauding the Gwladys Street to bother. Though the 1st goal today was in part due to Stones’ weird decision-making, Howard’s reaction speed and choice to kick Andre Ayew were even more pitiful. Indeed, speaking of Stones, 13 months ago I was still under the impression that Martinez was a manager who could be relied upon to improve our talented young players, whereas now it’s evident he’s actively restricting their development – the defensive ones at least. Stones isn’t learning from his mistakes, as he’s receiving no guidance from the manager, and is surely losing confidence by being part of a woeful system that leaks goals every week. And I don’t blame any individual player for that fact, apart from Howard, and its not his fault he’s relentlessly picked and praised anyway. I blame the manager, the manager who doesn’t work on set pieces, whose teams have, apart from one season, always been hopeless defensively. The manager who picks 4 highly-rated international defenders every week, usually puts two defensive midfielders in front of them (one of whom, Gareth Barry, has been excellent all season), but has no idea how to organise a team defensively, seems to never address obvious problems, whose game management is non-existent, and sets his team up so that the play is high risk, and the defending is incredibly passive.

Indeed, perhaps Martinez’ decline is indicative of a wider shift in footballing trend. In Martinez’ first season, Spain were World and European Champions, and the tactical vogue remained that of a possession based style that suited the Catalan’s upbringing and ideological purity. But just as Spain were dumped out of Brazil by a tactically innovative, high-pressing, counterattacking Chile side, football’s new direction has been in favour of those who seek a high intensity game, realise there’s nothing inherently good about possession in certain areas of the pitch, and seek balance and quick transition in all that they do. It is not a coincidence that more and more often teams who play away from home and regularly have less than 45% possession are winning more and more frequently – Martinez’ Everton too-often embody all that recent footballing years have suggested is an outmoded model. I’m not saying that it’s impossible to be a successful side that also likes to dominate possession, but it is impossible to be a successful side if ‘pragmatism’ is a dirty word, you refuse to acknowledge that football as a concept is always developing and stick to an ideal that seems not to be working, and crucially, you cannot set up a team defensively (which the other premises lead to)! Mauricio Pochettino is not a luddite from a bygone era, wedded to 4-4-2, long balls, and #passion – he and his Tottenham team is everything Martinez and Everton *should* be.

But even putting aside wider concerns about philosophy and tactical inflexibility, Martinez has made so many bizarre decisions this season and last. Whilst in his first season he actively won Everton games through his intelligent substitutions, he now appears reticent to make a change before the 80th minute, ignoring clear issues on the pitch. His rotation of the squad has been abysmal – Naismith never played, then started every game for a month and a half, then never played again. Mirallas and Lennon have both been massively underplayed, whilst Kone – an old, slow, Striker whose career was nearly finished by a terrible knee injury – has been forced to be a pretty awful winger for most of the season, usually in front of an inexperienced centre back at left back. I’m not slating Kone, he’s had a much better season than I expected, and could still be a useful squad player, but the manager ran him into the ground and made his naming on the team sheet a source of almost-universal ire. Muhamed Besic has looked Everton’s best player until his injury today, after his injury-enforced appearances, but could barely get on the pitch before or after recovering from his hamstring injury against Chelsea. And we all know James McCarthy would have been straight back in the team to replace him anyway. And that’s not even mentioning Joel.

Yes, the atmosphere at Goodison is pretty toxic, and it can’t help the players. But do you really blame the fans? Fans who spend so much of their time and money watching a ridiculously exciting possibility painfully fade away into a consistently agonising reality, because of the decisions and failings of the manager. And as much as I credit the manager with bringing a lot of those players to the club in the first place, I blame him for failing them time and time again.

Everton have been dreadful for 18 months. We’ve won 6 Premier League games all season. We’ve drawn 11. We’ve conceded the most goals of any team in the league at home. We’ve not beaten a team outside of the bottom 3 since September. Yes, there’s the cup semi-final to look forward to (a cup semi-final we’ve had to play one Premier League opponent to get to – Norwich city at home, who we couldn’t beat in 120 minutes), much like there was a Europa League tie against Dynamo Kyiv to look forward to. But it’s not good enough for Everton. It’s not good enough for this squad. And any other manager in the league could do a better job, I firmly believe that. So it’s time for the manager to go, any other equally talented or ambitious club would have sacked him already. Roberto Martinez may have promised Bill Kenwright he’d get us in the Champions League, but we’ve been a hell of a lot closer to the Championship for too long.
 
Well why not?

We beat them in the first leg, then we went to the Etihad and kept a clean sheet in the league, we then went to Stamford Bridge and would have won if not for a couple of bad decisions.

We all know the results haven't been great, but we've got a very good team who are capable of beating anyone.

Could I not claim to be the one arguing with "realism"?
The game that really matters is on Weds.

We're now going to go into that game off the back of a complete abomination of a performance and yet another defensive clown show. Confidence will be low and City will be going for the throat. I wouldn't have a bean on us keeping Carlisle out let alone City.
 
Martinez came in and said he understood everton and got the fans, sounded good but hey it has been two fingers up to us for the past two seasons. he is not listening and actually getting worse. drop stones drop howard drop baines drop barkley drop barry, thy can and should be dropped at different times, regardless of playing well or not, it is about keeping the team fresh and always on their toes. today we played a just coming back from injury coleman, cleverly and piennar, baines who cant cross anymore yet persists with it and the team insist on keep passing to him to do it. stones who has been making mistakes a lot recently and howard the less said the better. That is nota top four team, no more youngsters coming through that Martinez is relying on moyes selections to win the games. well that didn't work for moyes and will not work now. other teams have tactics Martinez doesn't or the players don't follow it well then you have a serious problem Martinez and you will be sacked or lose the fans and team. why persist with howard every match why not even seeonce if robles will get you a win my god man are you that stubborn well I personally hate this everton team at the moment it is shocking and have never felt this angry and I don't like it


It looks to me that he is sacrificing short term results for long term strategy.

He wants to coach the young players to play his system and then bring in a few more to take us to the next level and compete with the top 4

The other way to do it would be to play a different style and go for a high place in the league short term then sell the players and buy proven players who can play his system.
 
For me his position is salvageable. There are a couple of things that need to happen and we'll be fine.

1. More effort and desire from the players. Too many treading water.

2. Pick the best player for each position. That should be all there is to it.

3. Stop talking for a bit. Batten down the hatches and create a bit of siege mentality. Despite everything a good run of results will still give us a good season. We're capable.

I think the question we all asked was how true is his Mr Nice persona? Hopefully he's got it in him to give some of the players a good bollocking.

In lots of ways he's a credit to our club and he behaves with class and dignity. I'd hate for him to get dogs abuse and leave that way.
 
The game that really matters is on Weds.

We're now going to go into that game off the back of a complete abomination of a performance and yet another defensive clown show. Confidence will be low and City will be going for the throat. I wouldn't have a bean on us keeping Carlisle out let alone City.

City themselves haven't been amazing at the back (see their result yesterday).

Let's just not write it off already, eh?
 

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