Roberto Martinez discussion

[Tubey]

Is 10th "terrible" though?

17th? Yeah, that's arse awful, but 10th?

Again, hardly cause for panic, especially if winning a cup convinces Stones and Lukaku to stick around a bit longer

Yes, I think 10th is terrible. Indeed, I think two seasons of finishing bottom half is more than grounds for sacking, and a League Cup would make absolutely no difference to that to me. It's such a level of underperformance given our baseline expectations with this squad that it should make Martinez's position at the club completely untenable.

It's like a sales manager missing their target for two straight years. They'd be sacked.

 

[Osamabindiesel]

Let's be fair to Moyes and Martinez in the sense that they never really had the backing from the board with Billy "fill your pockets" Kenwright to acquire whatever pieces necessary to challenge the top 4.

We have had to build a team with youth and the fact that a lot of our players are drawing huge interest from big clubs reflects positively on Martinez. Would Martinez be in the top 4 if he had a board that allowed him to build a legitimately experienced and youthful side? While no doubt he has struggled to get this squad up to the task defensively, would this change things?

 

[longers]

It's absolutely unbelievable how some of our fan base can't be arsed with winning a cup

Id be delighted if it happened but at same time id swap it in a second for a top 4 finish.

No one ever remembers who wins the league cup, i literally can't remember who won it last year or the year before that or... well pretty much ever, it's a jarg competition at the end of the day and us being close to the final doesn't suddenly change this fact.

Logically you would think winning a cup would help give this squad a winning mentality but at same time i think certain players would use it as an excuse to have the 'perfect ending' to their time at Everton, aka Stones and Rom.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

But Mikey mate, surely you can see that if these Manager changed and learnt from his mistakes we'd be challenging top four and on the cusp of ending a trophy draught?! Id be unbelievably chuffed if we win the Cup, but a bottom half finish to accompany it? Nah. Cause we'll all be sitting here asking WHAT IFs. What if he actually gave Joel a run? What if he actually decided to change and learn? We're below teams that we're better than by an absolute mile yet horrible management puts us in an embarrassing twelth place.

Mate, have you not seen some of my posts this season?

Look through this thread FFS, I've thrown my fair share of critiscm at Martinez in my time here

Our first XI is probably top 4 caliber on it's day (If we play Robles and not Howard) but our squad depth is lacking when you compare us to other teams. I genuinely believe that finishing top half and getting a trophy is a good season. Is it the best season possible? Of course not, but it's still a good one

Top half and a Cup isn't bad, and would be a step in the right direction after last season

 

[MartSlinger]

Are we overrating our squad?

No.
Best young striker in Europe.
One of the best Young Defenders alongside Jagielka whos been one of the better CBs in the League since signing.
Arguably still possess two of the best RB/LB in the League.
Ross Barkley, an ever improving player who has this season started bossing games for EFC. Geri, Mirallas.

Its a very good squad that should be higher than twelth mate. Thats a fact.

 

[Tubey]

Let's be fair to Moyes and Martinez in the sense that they never really had the backing from the board with Billy "fill your pockets" Kenwright to acquire whatever pieces necessary to challenge the top 4.

We have had to build a team with youth and the fact that a lot of our players are drawing huge interest from big clubs reflects positively on Martinez. Would Martinez be in the top 4 if he had a board that allowed him to build a legitimately experienced and youthful side? While no doubt he has struggled to get this squad up to the task defensively, would this change things?

This is fine, but we're not expecting top four. Expectations change with what is in front of you. With what Martinez has, the reasonable expectation is 7th and upwards. Anything below 8th is an objective failure. To do that two years in a row is maddening.

You can blame the board for Everton not being an elite club any more, but you can't blame them for not making the grade when we are what we are.

 

[Little Ralphy]

especially if winning a cup convinces Stones and Lukaku to stick around a bit longer

Why would it? They want Champions League football, and winning a cup and finishing 10th isn't going to suggest we're any closer.

 

[bluewally]

Id be delighted if it happened but at same time id swap it in a second for a top 4 finish.

No one ever remembers who wins the league cup, i literally can't remember who won it last year or the year before that or... well pretty much ever, it's a jarg competition at the end of the day and us being close to the final doesn't suddenly change this fact.

This

 

[mkrudden]

No but I guess its not about what will be remember, but more about right now offsetting the cup run so far to balance the assessment of the league season so far. And in that respect I can understand the point that a win over the teams we have met so far and one good game against City is not really enough of a comfort to those worried fans.

Absolutely, and I think my response may have suggested I think we are performing well/there is no cause for concern.

I, like you, am pro-Martinez but it can't be said that the issues we are seeing should be dismissed.

I just think, aside from that, at the beginning of the season had we been asked whether we wanted to win a cup there would have been one resounding answer regardless of the opposition we were to face.

 

[longers]

Let's be fair to Moyes and Martinez in the sense that they never really had the backing from the board with Billy "fill your pockets" Kenwright to acquire whatever pieces necessary to challenge the top 4.

We have had to build a team with youth and the fact that a lot of our players are drawing huge interest from big clubs reflects positively on Martinez. Would Martinez be in the top 4 if he had a board that allowed him to build a legitimately experienced and youthful side? While no doubt he has struggled to get this squad up to the task defensively, would this change things?

Leicester are in the top 4 mate and they've spent peanuts.

The 'not backed by the board' excuse is weak given how open the league is this year.

 

[hallamblue]

This is the pick of the bunch.
So Martinez doesnt even deserve praise for getting us within 90 mins of a cup final because you deem the opposition beaten so far not worthy?

Bin.

Get in it.

Barnsley
Reading
Norwich
Middlesbrough


Which of these would you suggest we weren't favourites for?

 

[mkrudden]

Barnsley
Reading
Norwich
Middlesbrough


Which of these would you suggest we weren't favourites for?

I didn't say we werent favourites in any of them.

It's still an achievement to be in the semi final, regardless.

 

[Ashtonian]

So, Martinez signed Lukaku and Deulofeu, but not Dele Alli.

Obviously, he's got to go!

not what i said at all.

 

[bicycleheader]

Bobby can you give us a load of wins please? I have done almost no work in 5 hours in the office today.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Id be delighted if it happened but at same time id swap it in a second for a top 4 finish.

No one ever remembers who wins the league cup, i literally can't remember who won it last year or the year before that or... well pretty much ever, it's a jarg competition at the end of the day and us being close to the final doesn't suddenly change this fact.

Logically you would think winning a cup would help give this squad a winning mentality but at same time i think certain players would use it as an excuse to have the 'perfect ending' to their time at Everton, aka Stones and Rom.

Yes, but WE'D remember it

I could be arsed if Plymouth Argyle supporters don't remember us winning the League Cup 10 years from now. I'll chuffing remember it and you'll remember it and that's all that matters