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Roberto Martinez discussion

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Tubey said:
This is fine, but we're not expecting top four. Expectations change with what is in front of you. With what Martinez has, the reasonable expectation is 7th and upwards. Anything below 8th is an objective failure. To do that two years in a row is maddening.

You can blame the board for Everton not being an elite club any more, but you can't blame them for not making the grade when we are what we are.
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This is true. I just think it is an interesting question to ask especially now as our board situation is probably changing soon. The squad is not playing good enough at the moment now though. We have too much talent to be struggling this bad (Mourinho lost his job for something similar). Martinez should be fighting for his job RIGHT NOW
 
Osamabindiesel said:
Let's be fair to Moyes and Martinez in the sense that they never really had the backing from the board with Billy "fill your pockets" Kenwright to acquire whatever pieces necessary to challenge the top 4.

We have had to build a team with youth and the fact that a lot of our players are drawing huge interest from big clubs reflects positively on Martinez. Would Martinez be in the top 4 if he had a board that allowed him to build a legitimately experienced and youthful side? While no doubt he has struggled to get this squad up to the task defensively, would this change things?
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Not many sides in the league have a £28m striker mate.

I can see an argument for Moyes not being backed, but not so much Martinez. We're currently 18 points behind Leicester! 18! Not so mention the other clubs ahead of us like the mighty Watford, Palace, Stoke, West Ham, the rs and Southampton who people were writing off not too long ago.
It's becoming less about the money and more about the football.
 
mkrudden said:
We agree on most, but here I disagree my friend.

Getting our team through to the semi-finals of any cup competition is an achievement regardless of the opposition faced.

No-one talks about who Arsenal beat to the FA Cup years ago, do they? Does anyone even remember?

Martinez's reign will be based on trophies and league finishes, not whether the fans deemed the opposition worthy in the run in of both.
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And if we win the cup we won't remember who we played either. It won't matter, because we'll have won it.

You're talking about getting to a semi final though, which is totally different. If we get through on wednesday it's a kind of achievement but not really. Win it and it's an achievement. Getting to a semi final by beating two lower division teams and the reserve side of one of few teams worse than us in the same division is not an achievement. You can only beat what's in front of you so i'm not knocking them for that, but to laud as it as an achievement is just embarrassing.
 
Little Ralphy said:
Not many sides in the league have a £28m striker mate.

I can see an argument for Moyes not being backed, but not so much Martinez. We're currently 18 points behind Leicester! 18! Not so mention the other clubs ahead of us like the mighty Watford, Palace, Stoke, West Ham, the rs and Southampton who people were writing off not too long ago.
It's becoming less about the money and more about the football.
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So because Leicester are doing well, ahead of Chelsea, Utd, Liverpool, City (last time I looked?) then we can use it as a stick to beat our manager with?
 

longers said:
Leicester are in the top 4 mate and they've spent peanuts.

The 'not backed by the board' excuse is weak given how open the league is this year.
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Like I said before that is a fair argument. I'm curious to see if Leicester doesn't have a similar fall to Southhampton when they challenged the top 4.
 
Lanolin said:
And if we win the cup we won't remember who we played either. It won't matter, because we'll have won it.

You're talking about getting to a semi final though, which is totally different. If we get through on wednesday it's a kind of achievement but not really. Win it and it's an achievement. Getting to a semi final by beating two lower division teams and the reserve side of one of few teams worse than us in the same division is not an achievement. You can only beat what's in front of you so i'm not knocking them for that, but to laud as it as an achievement is just embarrassing.
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Absolutely agree. Whilst a semi-final is an achievement, it will be nothing in the grand scheme if we go out on Wed.
I was more talking about where we are now and who we've beaten being an irrelevant discussion topic - however I did infer that we should be opening the champagne.
I'm having too many debates at once! lol
 
mkrudden said:
So because Leicester are doing well, ahead of Chelsea, Utd, Liverpool, City (last time I looked?) then we can use it as a stick to beat our manager with?
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I was responding to someone who said we can't compete without finance, showing that in fact it is possible, and Leicester are the perfect example, of a side set up to win football matches through hard work and knowing your strengths.
 

bluestevon said:
Sorry about the swear filter didge mate - thought it would get flagged up as [deleted etc]

What i was saying though is are we now prepared to just swallow what Martinez says due to it not being as bad as normal in a presser, he has a long history of saying what we want to hear when needed and then doing squat about it
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Absolutely not, for me.

Just observing a change of tone in his utterances.
 
longers said:
Leicester are in the top 4 mate and they've spent peanuts.

The 'not backed by the board' excuse is weak given how open the league is this year.
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Leicester were relatively safe. got out of the relegation battle. Finished 14th. That wasnt good enough for them. They didn't think they couldnt challenge the established order. They replaced their manager and pushed on
 
Little Ralphy said:
I was responding to someone who said we can't compete without finance, showing that in fact it is possible, and Leicester are the perfect example, of a side set up to win football matches through hard work and knowing your strengths.
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That finance excuse for Martinez is somewhere between very thin and nonsense, he has good players but has no idea how to use them. Money was a good excuse for Moyes and Walter Smith.

We have a striker who is at the top of the scoring table, regular score three goals, in fact only three teams have scored more than us, reality is he is just a rubbish manager.
 
Little Ralphy said:
I was responding to someone who said we can't compete without finance, showing that in fact it is possible, and Leicester are the perfect example, of a side set up to win football matches through hard work and knowing your strengths.
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You have a point but let us wait until the end of the season. I'm not so sure they can maintain that form for the entire season.
 

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