Roberto Martinez discussion

[Allezfan]

Really hope you're right as he has done alot of good work and signed some great players. I know its not as simple as we all think it is.

Honestly I get why people have lost faith. I've spent the last 18 months looking at a generally good team not winning games and thinking ok so when is our manager going to fix this, when are we going to kick on and play like we've shown in glimpses and I never imagined I'd be 18 motnhs down the line and it wouldn't have happened yet.

I think you give him the rest of this season but 2 years is a long time to turn a slump around and if it hasn't happened then, you might have to accept it never will and you need to change manager to do that.

But god I hope he does turn it around. I like so much of what he's trying to do.

 

[BernieWright13]

"Don't youse try lecturing me about keeping the back door closed 4 eyes"

 

[Allezfan]

...and yet it wont happen. The people in charge know what's being built here. They wont kneejerk like you and the rest of your kind.

I love how you've become such a big backer of the board.

I feel like Davek/Kenwright is the feel good love story of 2015.

 

[ianefc]

sacking managers seems to have worked for spurs and no-one else really, except the mega money clubs...

Leicester, Stoke, Palace, Watford. All of those, when considering their realistic expectations and stature in the game, also considering the calibre of player. I think it's fair that all 4 clubs who have had at least one managerial change in the last 3 years.

 

[davids]

Honestly I get why people have lost faith. I've spent the last 18 months looking at a generally good team not winning games and thinking ok so when is our manager going to fix this, when are we going to kick on and play like we've shown in glimpses and I never imagined I'd be 18 motnhs down the line and it wouldn't have happened yet.

I think you give him the rest of this season but 2 years is a long time to turn a slump around and if it hasn't happened then, you might have to accept it never will and you need to change manager to do that.

But god I hope he does turn it around. I like so much of what he's trying to do.

It's all about results,and we aren't getting them.Cups are all well and good,but the Prem is where the money is.Hate to think about it too much but if a few more results go against us it could start looking like his last season at Wigan.And if people think Newcastle are going to roll over for us........

 

[duncs pigeon]

What worries me with his tactics are, that the opposing manager will say to his players' dont worry if you go 2 goals down, Everton always concede and your back in the game'. I do like the way he wants to play his football but, I just wish he would work on defending.

 

[Woolly Blue]

I love how you've become such a big backer of the board.

I feel like Davek/Kenwright is the feel good love story of 2015.

Dave won't respond to your post for a while in this thread mate. He's not being ignorant by not responding, it's just because he was thread banned yesterday.

He's alive and kicking in other threads though.

 

[Allezfan]

It's all about results,and we aren't getting them.Cups are all well and good,but the Prem is where the money is.Hate to think about it too much but if a few more results go against us it could start looking like his last season at Wigan.And if people think Newcastle are going to roll over for us........

Ah come on now. That's insane. Wigan had 20 points this time that season, we have 29. Relegation is simply not going to happen.

 

[By god I'm blue]

What happens if we get a new manager, dunno who, but someone we all like (impossible probs) and we are still a bit crap and we've all been vastly over rating our players?

Just a what if?

I don't think we have been overrating our players, but I do feel some are oblivious to the strengths of other teams in the league who are on a par with us and even better.

The us V spurs thread being a classic example. Despite being many points ahead and actually winning some games, there are still posters in that thread who think we have a better XI.

Anyway, despite all of that, we don't win football matches under Martinez, therefore he should be sacked if we get beat and thus knocked out on Wednesday. His only stay of execution for me would be if he got us to a cup final. But I would still demand a massive improvement from him until the end of the season.

 

[By god I'm blue]

Ah come on now. That's insane. Wigan had 20 points this time that season, we have 29. Relegation is simply not going to happen.

Maybe so....but just for a moment, ponder that sentence you have just written and realise how bad this actually is! lol

 

[Tree13]

Saw a tweet that hit me with the reality of the situation.

It was a Liverpool fan who wrote it, but I thought it was a good tweet non the less.

He said;

How is the worse Liverpool team he has ever seen 5 points clear of the best Everton team he has ever seen.

He was referring to calibre of player.

We are in a mess.

To Martinez' credit.... he clearly is a nice man, he represents the club well, he understands the stature of the club and won't let the media forget it, he has done well in not only building the squad but also keeping players that in years gone by would have been allowed to leave.

But for all those positives winning only 18 times in 19 months, only 4 of the 17 teams who competed in all 38 games last season and 23 this having accumulated less points than us. He's had one good season relative to the expectancy on him in 6 1/2 years as a PL manager.

He may one day make a good manager, but I'm not overly happy with Everton being his Guiuea pig. He relegated Wigan because he stuck to his flawed philosophy and Everton WILL stay up this season despite having him as manager, not because of him. Suarez almost single handedly won the league for the RS....Lukaku's goals are keeping us out of the relegation zone.

Lukaku himself has been flogged by Martinez this season, he's barely missed a minute, we may yet pay for this in the next few months.

It worries me that this has gone largely unnoticed by the fanbase.

Lukaku should be getting the odd breather here and there, coming off with 20 minutes to go when we are comfortably ahead. However a combination of bad tactics ( meaning we have rarely been comfortably ahead in a game ) and bad selections ( Kone, a backup striker, starting more than a dozen games on the wing. He can't come on as a fresh pair of legs for Rom because most of the time he's more knackered than Rom! ) has prevented this.

If Lukaku breaks down, Martinez only has himself to blame. He's refused to use Naismith, Mirallas or Kone appropriately and Rom has played too many minutes in too many games as a result.

 

[Allezfan]

Maybe so....but just for a moment, ponder that sentence you have just written and realise how bad this actually is! lol

30 points in january is midtable, 40 points in janaury is challenge for europe, 20 points in janaury is relegation form. That's not a bad rule of thumb.

And we're on 30 points. There's less points between us and 6th than us and 17th.

It's crap but it's not a relegation fight.

 

[Tree13]

Cup or bust for me

If we win a trophy this season I'll give Martinez a pass until 16/17. If we don't win a cup I think that we should start looking who is available to replace him.

I love the man as well, but his philosophy is flawed in the prem.

The cup would get us into Europe, yes?

Has Martinez shown us anything to suggest he could lead us to a European trophy? He has failed to use the squad depth he has available this season, when we do NOT have the burden of extra European games - I don't think he'll suddenly get better at that facet of management over the summer. Therefore, getting into Europe could well do us more harm than good next year (under this manager).

 

[DualityNSNO]

The cup would get us into Europe, yes?

Has Martinez shown us anything to suggest he could lead us to a European trophy? He has failed to use the squad depth he has available this season, when we do NOT have the burden of extra European games - I don't think he'll suddenly get better at that facet of management over the summer. Therefore, getting into Europe could well do us more harm than good next year (under this manager).

Well, he got us pretty far last time out in a ridiculously crap season, so I dunno - his style of play is more suited to European football than to English, as far as defending and winning games goes.


I know, I know, Kiev, but I choose not to remember that, for my own well-being.

 

[ijjysmith]

I don't think we have been overrating our players, but I do feel some are oblivious to the strengths of other teams in the league who are on a par with us and even better.

The us V spurs thread being a classic example. Despite being many points ahead and actually winning some games, there are still posters in that thread who think we have a better XI.

Anyway, despite all of that, we don't win football matches under Martinez, therefore he should be sacked if we get beat and thus knocked out on Wednesday. His only stay of execution for me would be if he got us to a cup final. But I would still demand a massive improvement from him until the end of the season.

That technically could be you overrating them right there.