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Roberto Martinez discussion

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The cup would get us into Europe, yes?

Has Martinez shown us anything to suggest he could lead us to a European trophy? He has failed to use the squad depth he has available this season, when we do NOT have the burden of extra European games - I don't think he'll suddenly get better at that facet of management over the summer. Therefore, getting into Europe could well do us more harm than good next year (under this manager).

Given we're 12th now and finished 1th last year, surely the 'it was europe' excuse is wearing thin?

I like watching everton is europe and I'd like it to happen. I would also like us to win a trophy and I'd like that to happen. Wolfsburg last year was about the only good thing about the last two years.
 
Ah come on now. That's insane. Wigan had 20 points this time that season, we have 29. Relegation is simply not going to happen.
I wholeheartedly hope your right,but if we keep this win-less run going,given what an odd season it's been up until now, a few of the teams below us could easily go on a good run.Nothing but a win against Newcastle will be acceptable,lets just wait and see.
 
Given we're 12th now and finished 1th last year, surely the 'it was europe' excuse is wearing thin?

I like watching everton is europe and I'd like it to happen. I would also like us to win a trophy and I'd like that to happen. Wolfsburg last year was about the only good thing about the last two years.

I agree with you, Wolfsburg was definitely a high point.

However, i think you have misunderstood me a little. I'm not making excuses for Martinez, I'm saying that he appears to be getting worse the longer he stays here, so do we REALLY want to qualify for Europe and still have him at the helm? The burden of extra games will sink us iMHO because he cannot handle the existing workload as it is.
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...moment-in-season-of-unrealised-potential.html

A Premier League manager took in Everton against Manchester United at Goodison Park on a scouting mission last October ahead of facing both clubs in the forthcoming weeks. Glancing at the team sheets he drew a surprising conclusion: Everton had the stronger line-up.

In the event United ran out 3-0 winners in a fixture overshadowed by the sudden death of Howard Kendall which, in mitigation, clearly affected the Everton players and the mood inside the stadium that afternoon. Still the conclusion held. It was an indictment of United, to an extent, but Everton did have the better players.

And that is Roberto Martinez’s problem as he heads towards Wednesday’s Capital One Cup semi-final away to Manchester City with Everton holding a precious 2-1 advantage from the first leg. His team is desperately under-performing which is the most dangerous scenario for any manager when it comes to an assessment his work.

If a manager’s task is to get more from the sum of his parts, or at least to realize the potential, then Martinez is, unfortunately, failing at present. It means Wednesday’s fixture is suddenly the most important Martinez has faced since he was appointed Everton manager in June 2013. If Everton fail to get through the pressure from the supporters, who are already well aware of the underperformance, will mount dramatically. He needs to reach that Wembley final.

Since the loss to United Everton have played 18 matches and won just five. Four of those matches – and three of those wins – were in cup competitions including that victory over City. So when only Premier League fixtures are considered the statistics are even worse – just two victories in 14. Going further back it is six wins in 23 this season (plus losing three of the last four at the end of the last campaign when they finished 11th).

That pressure, Martinez reasoned after the home defeat to Swansea City on Sunday, is already affecting the players with the manager describing the latest result as a “negative outcome of a fearful attitude”. There is certainly a genuine concern that, when it comes to playing at home in particular, it is hampering some of Everton’s players.

The worry will be that it is affecting the young players with Everton possessing a quartet of the best burgeoning talent in the Premier League in John Stones, Ross Barkley, Romelu Lukaku and Gerard Deulofeu who all started against Swansea and who are all under 23. Everton had five players who are 23 or under in their team but it was not a callow XI. Martinez is not throwing the kids in. In fact the average age of his starting XI was 26. Tottenham Hotspur also had five players 23 and under who started the 3-1 victory away to Crystal Palace – with the average age of their team 24.5. Spurs are fourth in the table; Everton are 12th.

It gets worse. Only three teams – Manchester City, Leicester City and Spurs – have scored more league goals than Everton’s 40 this season. But only five teams – the bottom five – have conceded more than their 34 in 23 matches. No fewer than 22 of those goals have been conceded at Goodison. And this from a team that, feasibly, could make up three-quarters of England’s defence at Euro 2016 with Stones, Leighton Baines and Phil Jagielka. Right-back Seamus Coleman, were he English not Irish, would feasibly complete the set.

But it is too soft; too disorganised. No-one is saying that Martinez should turn to a Tony Pulis-style drilled defence but given what he has available this is not acceptable in a season full of opportunity, with Manchester United and Chelsea woefully under-performing, for a club with a squad as strong as Everton’s. They should be closer to Spurs; they should be closer to sixth-placed West Ham United.

Their season is in the balance. Everton sit eight points behind Manchester United who are in fifth place and that automatic Europa League place and eight points ahead of Newcastle United who are in 18th and the final relegation place from the Premier League. Which way will it now head? Wednesday may decide.

Everton should – and still can - be challenging for the top six. There is no excuse. The club marshals its resources as best it can, it does not have a big wage bill but it does have good players, and it also provides stability and support for the manager.

It is not overly demanding. There is a chronic need for fresh investment – and there are ongoing talks over a possible American purchase – and a new stadium but that is for the future.

Martinez is an extremely likeable manager who has an admirable desire to play attacking, attractive football which should not be diluted and a determination to bring players through and develop and encourage them. But he has to do better. Far better with what he has available.

Reaching Wembley can certainly change the dynamic and overcoming City to do so will be a significant achievement in itself. Winning a trophy for the first time in 21 years would change that dynamic even more. But if Everton do not get through on Wednesday then the focus will fall far even more sharply on Martinez and whether he is getting enough out of this squad.

Lots of other national publications beginning to question the manager...
 
Well, he got us pretty far last time out in a ridiculously crap season, so I dunno - his style of play is more suited to European football than to English, as far as defending and winning games goes.


I know, I know, Kiev, but I choose not to remember that, for my own well-being.

You may well be right about that. But we play in the English Prem, so if we struggle badly enough in English fixtures we face relegation.

Kiev was lost the moment RM handed in the team sheet.... Alcaraz was an abortion of a footballer.
 

You may well be right about that. But we play in the English Prem, so if we struggle badly enough in English fixtures we face relegation.

Kiev was lost the moment RM handed in the team sheet.... Alcaraz was an abortion of a footballer.
Oh I know, didn't say anything different than anyone else re: the league, but just threw my thoughts into the discussion lol
 
It worries me that this has gone largely unnoticed by the fanbase.

Lukaku should be getting the odd breather here and there, coming off with 20 minutes to go when we are comfortably ahead. However a combination of bad tactics ( meaning we have rarely been comfortably ahead in a game ) and bad selections ( Kone, a backup striker, starting more than a dozen games on the wing. He can't come on as a fresh pair of legs for Rom because most of the time he's more knackered than Rom! ) has prevented this.

If Lukaku breaks down, Martinez only has himself to blame. He's refused to use Naismith, Mirallas or Kone appropriately and Rom has played too many minutes in too many games as a result.
Get a grip
He is at the peak of his fitness and plays generally 90mins per weak, if he can't manage that and you think it is too much we would need a squad of god knows how many to cover

I guess another stick in the armoury to best RM with
 
Biggest game of Bobby's time here on Wednesday. He is standing at the precipice, if we go through and look good doing it, it could be a massive moment for us which catapaults us up the table in the league as well.

If we don't go through, I fear it may be the beginning of the end of this era

Please talk me off the ledge
 

If we don't go through, I fear it may be the beginning of the end of this era
You'd be right to expect this to be true but as @davek mentioned in another thread, the board seemed to quite easily ignore the issue last season.

I do not think the board will be easily swayed this time either that Martinez needs relieving of his position, regardless of Wednesday's result.

Personally, I believe rightly or wrongly it will take an awful lot more pressure from the fans before Kenwright and co. pull the trigger on Roberto.

I just hope that if he isn't able to turn the situation around that they do not act too late before the squad dismantles.
 
A Premier League manager took in Everton against Manchester United at Goodison Park on a scouting mission last October ahead of facing both clubs in the forthcoming weeks. Glancing at the team sheets he drew a surprising conclusion: Everton had the stronger line-up.


In the event United ran out 3-0 winners in a fixture overshadowed by the sudden death of Howard Kendall which, in mitigation, clearly affected the Everton players and the mood inside the stadium that afternoon. Still the conclusion held. It was an indictment of United, to an extent, but Everton did have the better players.

And that is Roberto Martinez’s problem as he heads towards Wednesday’s Capital One Cup semi-final away to Manchester City with Everton holding a precious 2-1 advantage from the first leg. His team is desperately under-performing which is the most dangerous scenario for any manager when it comes to an assessment his work.

martinez-2_3558547b.jpg


If a manager’s task is to get more from the sum of his parts, or at least to realize the potential, then Martinez is, unfortunately, failing at present. It means Wednesday’s fixture is suddenly the most important Martinez has faced since he was appointed Everton manager in June 2013. If Everton fail to get through the pressure from the supporters, who are already well aware of the underperformance, will mount dramatically. He needs to reach that Wembley final.

Since the loss to United Everton have played 18 matches and won just five. Four of those matches – and three of those wins – were in cup competitions including that victory over City. So when only Premier League fixtures are considered the statistics are even worse – just two victories in 14. Going further back it is six wins in 23 this season (plus losing three of the last four at the end of the last campaign when they finished 11th).

That pressure, Martinez reasoned after the home defeat to Swansea City on Sunday, is already affecting the players with the manager describing the latest result as a “negative outcome of a fearful attitude”. There is certainly a genuine concern that, when it comes to playing at home in particular, it is hampering some of Everton’s players.

The worry will be that it is affecting the young players with Everton possessing a quartet of the best burgeoning talent in the Premier League in John Stones, Ross Barkley, Romelu Lukaku and Gerard Deulofeu who all started against Swansea and who are all under 23. Everton had five players who are 23 or under in their team but it was not a callow XI. Martinez is not throwing the kids in. In fact the average age of his starting XI was 26. Tottenham Hotspur also had five players 23 and under who started the 3-1 victory away to Crystal Palace – with the average age of their team 24.5. Spurs are fourth in the table; Everton are 12th.

martinez-3_3558548b.jpg


It gets worse. Only three teams – Manchester City, Leicester City and Spurs – have scored more league goals than Everton’s 40 this season. But only five teams – the bottom five – have conceded more than their 34 in 23 matches. No fewer than 22 of those goals have been conceded at Goodison. And this from a team that, feasibly, could make up three-quarters of England’s defence at Euro 2016 with Stones, Leighton Baines and Phil Jagielka. Right-back Seamus Coleman, were he English not Irish, would feasibly complete the set.

But it is too soft; too disorganised. No-one is saying that Martinez should turn to a Tony Pulis-style drilled defence but given what he has available this is not acceptable in a season full of opportunity, with Manchester United and Chelsea woefully under-performing, for a club with a squad as strong as Everton’s. They should be closer to Spurs; they should be closer to sixth-placed West Ham United.

Their season is in the balance. Everton sit eight points behind Manchester United who are in fifth place and that automatic Europa League place and eight points ahead of Newcastle United who are in 18th and the final relegation place from the Premier League. Which way will it now head? Wednesday may decide.

martinez-4_3558549b.jpg
Everton and Manchester City do battle again in the second leg of their Capital One Cup semi-final

Everton should – and still can - be challenging for the top six. There is no excuse. The club marshals its resources as best it can, it does not have a big wage bill but it does have good players, and it also provides stability and support for the manager.

It is not overly demanding. There is a chronic need for fresh investment – and there are ongoing talks over a possible American purchase – and a new stadium but that is for the future.

Martinez is an extremely likeable manager who has an admirable desire to play attacking, attractive football which should not be diluted and a determination to bring players through and develop and encourage them. But he has to do better. Far better with what he has available.

Reaching Wembley can certainly change the dynamic and overcoming City to do so will be a significant achievement in itself. Winning a trophy for the first time in 21 years would change that dynamic even more. But if Everton do not get through on Wednesday then the focus will fall far even more sharply on Martinez and whether he is getting enough out of this squad.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...moment-in-season-of-unrealised-potential.html
 
You'd be right to expect this to be true but as @davek mentioned in another thread, the board seemed to quite easily ignore the issue last season.

I do not think the board will be easily swayed this time either that Martinez needs relieving of his position, regardless of Wednesday's result.

Personally, I believe rightly or wrongly it will take an awful lot more pressure from the fans before Kenwright and co. pull the trigger on Roberto.

I just hope that if he isn't able to turn the situation around that they do not act too late before the squad dismantles.

Thing is last season he had time, the benefit of the doubt, but this season he has shown that this is as good as it gets under him.

We as fans need to put pressure on him and the board, to be honest i think this is what he is fearful of and that was the real reason behind his comments at the weekend with regards to the fans. He knows a lot of us are onto him and is trying to nip it in the bud quick, hoping that we think it will do the team harm. Yes it might do but it wont cause as much harm as he is going to do.

The real fan frustration is being caused by his tactics, his team selections, IE Howard and the moronic comments he comes out with week after week are unneeded wind up.
As you say if we leave it too long this squad will fall apart, he dosen't deserve time, he has already had it.
 
Biggest game of Bobby's time here on Wednesday. He is standing at the precipice, if we go through and look good doing it, it could be a massive moment for us which catapaults us up the table in the league as well.

If we don't go through, I fear it may be the beginning of the end of this era

Please talk me off the ledge

He's on the ledge mate -not you
 

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