Roberto Martinez discussion

[bluewally]

I understand what you are saying. I am not saying throw the league priorities out the window. Its mainly this season I think we can forget it and the cup is the priority. I think with improvement in the league naturally means more chances for cup runs as you have a better quality squad.

This season I agree the league is over (well if we are only looking upwards) and I hope we win the league cup. My issue is with the idea that winning the league cup makes this a good season. I don't even know if you are one of the people saying that sorry.

 

[BlueToff]

We have been Wigan for the last two seasons, he just hasn't taken us down yet thanks to Lukaku.

A player that wouldn't be at the club if not for him...

His defensive weakness is something Martinez should address. Unfortunately, he hasn't, and this is when the coaches around him (e.g. Ferguson and Royle, who know the club) should be insisting he gets somebody in to help with that side of the game. Heck even the senior players should be saying it.

 

[4737carlin]

Like it or not the top 4 is the 2nd biggest prize in the country now after the title. To secure the future of the club you need the money from the CL. Even if someone buys us the UEFA fair play rules prevent sugar daddy Chelski style spending anymore.

The league cup would be great but it should be the cherry on top not the be all and end all. It's meaningless to the long term success (I don't want to say survival) of this club.

Last bit is bang on, even if we win that he has to go, some terrible managers down the years have won that, means nothing with regards to a managers ability to keep a club in the top flight. Ramos, Mcleish, Souness have all won it, its not a sign you can hack it in the top league

 

[royalblue66]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't we been hearing this promise of 'better times around the corner' for months?

Think he used to work for Hartleys, jam tomorrow.

 

[BlueToff]

This season I agree the league is over (well if we are only looking upwards) and I hope we win the league cup. My issue is with the idea that winning the league cup makes this a good season. I don't even know if you are one of the people saying that sorry.

Right well our fans always moan about not winning a cup and now we have the best chance we've had in years, our fans are winging again.

The only difference between our sides/tactics in cup and league have been the keepers - and that's where the fault lies as without a keeper who at least inspires some sort of reliability to both his teammates and the crowd (especially at home) we don't stand a chance.

That's Martinex' biggest flaw.

 

[Mogwai]

This season I agree the league is over (well if we are only looking upwards) and I hope we win the league cup. My issue is with the idea that winning the league cup makes this a good season. I don't even know if you are one of the people saying that sorry.

Hmmmm good season? Not really. If we finish where we are then no. But I would only consider it a good season if we won the cup and finished top 6. Or not win the cup and finish at least top 4. As either I think are unlikely. I don't care where we finish outside of the top 4 and bottom 3 if we win the cup.

7th and a cup = 16th and a cup on my scale at the moment.

 

[4737carlin]

A player that wouldn't be at the club if not for him...

His defensive weakness is something Martinez should address. Unfortunately, he hasn't, and this is when the coaches around him (e.g. Ferguson and Royle, who know the club) should be insisting he gets somebody in to help with that side of the game. Heck even the senior players should be saying it.

Doesn't matter that he bought him, what he does with the payers is the problem. Personlly i don't find fault in who he has bought, Mori is looking like a great buy, but he is clueless on what to do with a squad and always will be.
As for the senior players do you really think he would listen to them anyway? Don't forget he is proper deluded, no chance he would ever listen to anyone. He can't see a problem with Howard, can't see a problem with the way he sets a side up, there's none so blind as those who will not see and all that.

 

[Kurt.]

He speaks for the fans and is bang on.

Doesn't speak for me at all..... he's as thick as 2 planks and often puts his foot in his mouth with stupid comments and views.

 

[bluewally]

Right well our fans always moan about not winning a cup and now we have the best chance we've had in years, our fans are winging again.

The only difference between our sides/tactics in cup and league have been the keepers - and that's where the fault lies as without a keeper who at least inspires some sort of reliability to both his teammates and the crowd (especially at home) we don't stand a chance.

That's Martinex' biggest flaw.

Best chance since 2009 I agree. Moyes got us to that final and fell short. We finished 5th that year too. Did we have a bigger more expensive squad then or are both things actually possible?

Moyes also got us 4th place and finished outside the top half once in 10 years.

That wasn't good enough once but what we are getting now is?

I don't want Moyes back but we need to look at ourselves and how our expectations are being lowered.

 

[Allezfan]

He's got a caustic personality has Nev, but he nails it a lot. He has there.

Including the bit where he says "and this is where we’ve got to decide whether the manager’s attacking philosophy is the best one for the club. I believe it is."?

 

[Deleted member 24970]

Running out of excuses? What excuses need to be made? For the best football we've seen for a decade and more? For being in a cup semi final? For being a handful of points off a European spot?

If it's not broken......

Good Afternoon Da-Vek its been a while, what do you think now after the recent defeat to swansea ?
The atmosphere was dead, play was okay except for the final move, mainly lukaku and co not gambling on delboys crosses etc....

I know that alot of people will be divided on howard and stones for who was at fault for the goal but imo it was only a matter of time, the playing out from the back is drilled into them by the manager they are too scared to go long as its against the style they are taught every week in training, whats wrong with the odd clearing your lines type clearance ? I noticed Mori done it alot when he was settling in around the west brom game and such, now he is trying to play out from the back like stones, both are capable but i feel martinez and his style is slowly dragging us down, i laid low on here for a while because he actually plays two wingers recently - one of my biggest gripes as you know, genuinly thought we were brilliant for the majority of chelsea and newcastle as a result but of course the jags/howard c*ck up really took the wind out of our sails.

Overall i think there are alot of fans leaning to the sack martinez side than those who are still sticking by him.
Massive massive game against city, not only for the club but for martinez and his followers too i believe, lose to city and i think our season will just slowly crumble into nothing.

 

[Allezfan]

I also think the current performance of Leicester and possibly West Ham suggests that league progression may not be quite as far fetched as you suggest.

Where did leicester finish last year?

The problem with the league is the be and end all thought patterns is it assumes the league is much more static than it is.

The last time we won a cup and came 15th, we finish 6th the next year. The last time we finished both 4th and 5th, we came 11th the year after.

Coming bottom half could be a sign of a decline but it could equally just be a bad season. Coming 4th could be the sign of a club on the rise or just a good season.

It's silverware that gets rememebr in hsitory.

 

[Little Ralphy]

A player that wouldn't be at the club if not for him...

Where has this myth come from? He was at west brom and was going back there until Mirallas persuaded him to come to us. Lukaku may have ended up here regardless of who the manager was as it was the promise of first team football for a club challenging for European places. Such a shame we can only offer him one of those things now.

 

[BlueToff]

Best chance since 2009 I agree. Moyes got us to that final and fell short. We finished 5th that year too. Did we have a bigger more expenxive squad then or are both things actually possible?

Moyes also got us 4th place and finished outside the top half once in 10 years.

That wasn't good enough once but what we are getting now is?

I don't want Moyes back but we need to look at ourselves and how our expectations are being lowered.

If anything mate, it's not the expectations being lowered at all.

It's the new-found expectations of instant success that everyone seems to crave. It's people suggesting sell Stones (one of the best youngsters around) and get in a 31 year-old Ashley Williams and a 29 year old Ryan Shawcross as his replacement.

It's the sky-spawned transfer window hype-orgy that goes on not just in August and January, but now all season round.

Yes, our league form is poor, and yes, our defending is a concern (though both those can be pointed at the manager's steadfast refusal to accept that Howard is no longer fit for purpose). But that, really is the fault with Martinez that is costing us.

His tactics work in the cups, and they work in the league on the rare occasion we get it right at the back.

At the start of the campaign, nobody expected Leicester and Chelsea to be where they are, or Utd to struggle so much, or City to mess up so much.

If, in July, you told Evertonians that Lukaku would have bagged 19 by Jan, that we'd be taking a lead into a second leg of a semi-final against City, and that we'd be 12th but still in with a shout of a top 7 finish, I don't think many people would be too disgruntled...

It's down to the fact that this season now, but only now, feels like a missed opportunity in the league because of Leicester and Chelsea etc.

If we get a run together, which if Martinez finally accepts that he must change the keeper could easily happen, we can definitely lodge a challenge on the top 7 at least.

I can't be bothered with all this doom and gloom - as much as I don't like being overly optimistic.

 

[Deleted member 24970]

Seemed like against Spurs we went too far the other way, and say back inviting pressure. The second half was better but I think it will be a while before we get the mix right.

Whilst i agree, if he has finally noticed the flaws and is trying to solve the issue, coupled with playing two wingers as it seems now, then why shouldnt he be given time to get things in order, come out and say he got it wrong and many will be more lenient i feel. I dont mind a poor run of form if the bigger picture is looking good, finding the balance between success now and for the future is a perfect blend, right now i feel martinez results are not good enough to keep players hanging around for 5 years or so....