Roberto Martinez discussion

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Groucho said:


Win games, not keep clean sheets.

Fair enough, at least it's not the "play attractive football regardless of the result" stance I was fearing. The plan at least, is to win games.

But why not keep clean sheets and win? That would keep our blood pressure down.
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It's rather a cavalier attitide towards football and a one size fits all approach, which you could accuse him of being stubborn and very narrow minded about.

That said, at least he has nailed his colours to his mast and will stand and fall by his philosophy.

Edit - His plan of "winning games" isn't going too well for him at the moment though is it? nor has it for 18 months.
 
Groucho said:


Win games, not keep clean sheets.

Fair enough, at least it's not the "play attractive football regardless of the result" stance I was fearing. The plan at least, is to win games.

But why not keep clean sheets and win? That would keep our blood pressure down.
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See this is why i'm at the final point with him. its been a year and a half and he is saying things like this. Great, he focuses on winning rather than not conceding, would be fantastic IF IT WORKED FFS! we aren't winning the games, and this keeps happening over and over and over. Even i blamed bad luck this season and thought it was getting better, but if the manager still has this train of thought then it shows how foolish a club we really are to back him still.

any manager who has any football knowledge would look at his team ,not winning and say hmm, well we keep conceding goals because we attack too much, if we didn't concede as many then maybe we might win a bit more'. Well anyone but everton's manager would consider that.
 
I've said before that i'm not convinced he's the right man for the job, and that I don't think he'll bring us the success we want, but regardless of how else he is remembered he has an opportunity to go down in Everton folklore now.

Win tonight and beat them at Wembley and people will be talking about him in 50 years. This is why he was brought in, this is the big chance to prove himself. Whatever i've said in the past or future doesn't matter today and he will have my full support for 90 minutes tonight. I'll be leaving nothing in the stands and I hope the players leave nothing on the pitch. Time to show us what you're made of Bobby.
 
Lanolin said:
I've said before that i'm not convinced he's the right man for the job, and that I don't think he'll bring us the success we want, but regardless of how else he is remembered he has an opportunity to go down in Everton folklore now.

Win tonight and beat them at Wembley and people will be talking about him in 50 years. This is why he was brought in, this is the big chance to prove himself. Whatever i've said in the past or future doesn't matter today and he will have my full support for 90 minutes tonight. I'll be leaving nothing in the stands and I hope the players leave nothing on the pitch. Time to show us what you're made of Bobby.
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I can't be that fickle and forgive everything else based on a cup win.

If he wins the cup and is given more time I worry he will go down in Everton folklore, as the man who got us relegated
 
bluewally said:
I can't be that fickle and forgive everything else based on a cup win.

If he wins the cup and is given more time I worry he will go down in Everton folklore, as the man who got us relegated
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Nothing to do with forgiving anything. I've made my feelings on the subject of Cup vs League very clear, but there's no doubt that leading the club to a trophy by beating Liverpool at Wembley would cement his place in history.
 

We all want to win games, but in the premiership where margins are so fine an ability to score is not enough.

Tonight is a classic case. If we can stop City scoring we are at Wembley.
I think the manager believes a team is built from the front whereas many would believe it is built from the back.
He has to be careful that it doesn't prove a costlt lesson for him to learn.
 
Lanolin said:
Nothing to do with forgiving anything. I've made my feelings on the subject of Cup vs League very clear, but there's no doubt that leading the club to a trophy by beating Liverpool at Wembley would cement his place in history.
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that is the worrying dilemma haha

i am not convinced league form will change at all, but we can't sack a cup winning manager either so its between a rock and a hard place. To sack him, best case scenario is for his tactics to fail so badly tonight ala Kiev last season. But lets be honest, even i don't want anyhting than to win tonight and to win at wembley so as i said it is a difficult one.

Going out tonight though and surely the fans will turn.
 
Ashtonian said:
that is the worrying dilemma haha

i am not convinced league form will change at all, but we can't sack a cup winning manager either so its between a rock and a hard place. To sack him, best case scenario is for his tactics to fail so badly tonight ala Kiev last season. But lets be honest, even i don't want anyhting than to win tonight and to win at wembley so as i said it is a difficult one.

Going out tonight though and surely the fans will turn.
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I don't dislike Roberto though, I just don't think he's very good at winning football matches. If he proves me wrong by winning a load, I will happily be won over by him. It's not fickle, just common sense. I want whoever our manager is to succeed and I want us to win every game we play. If Roberto shows that he can take us forward in both league and cups then he has my 100% backing.
 
Lanolin said:
I don't dislike Roberto though, I just don't think he's very good at winning football matches. If he proves me wrong by winning a load, I will happily be won over by him. It's not fickle, just common sense. I want whoever our manager is to succeed and I want us to win every game we play. If Roberto shows that he can take us forward in both league and cups then he has my 100% backing.
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fair enough.

My issue is that come last season, i would have liked him to be sacked based on what was on the pitch. Fast forward to now and its just a combination of fustration and just tiredness now. I was happy to admit the manager had altered his approach, concede the start of the season was difficult, concede it was just bad luck, now we are 5 months in and once you actually bother to look at the league and see how bad we are then it slowly starts to sink in for me.

attack wise we are fantastic to watch sure but hell right now i'd take grinding a boring 1-0 every week over attacking and drawing with chelsea. That is the issue here more than nayhting else, we just can't win.
 

Ashtonian said:
I'd argue the opposite, there is no pressure on him here whatsoever. At least at wigan he was fighting to stay up every year, what has he genuinely got here? As long as he conceded he won't have a big transfer fund, the board will let him run wild. Hell the 11 wins in 51 games with the players he has would be alarm bells elsewhere, but the club that gave moyes 11 years to win nothing is not going to be even having words with roberto as long as he keeps towing the line and doesn't do a drastic job .

Remember not too long ago, three longest serving managers?

ferguson- league titles, champions league twice, fa cup, league cup
Wenger- League, f.a cups, league cup
Moyes- nothing

Tells you all you need to know about pressure managing our club.
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Its true that Bill is prepared to give managers a good length of time, but this could be considered to be a good thing. I think if the club is sold, as is being suggested, Martinez would find himself under more pressure to complete his 'project' quickly.In some ways Martinez started from the same point as Hughes did at Stoke...a strong defence but boringly dull football especially in attack. Some may say that Stoke have got further than Everton, but its not entirely reflected in league position etc.
 
Ashtonian said:
See this is why i'm at the final point with him. its been a year and a half and he is saying things like this. Great, he focuses on winning rather than not conceding, would be fantastic IF IT WORKED FFS! we aren't winning the games, and this keeps happening over and over and over. Even i blamed bad luck this season and thought it was getting better, but if the manager still has this train of thought then it shows how foolish a club we really are to back him still.

any manager who has any football knowledge would look at his team ,not winning and say hmm, well we keep conceding goals because we attack too much, if we didn't concede as many then maybe we might win a bit more'. Well anyone but everton's manager would consider that.
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When he needed to, at the back end of last season he tightened up the defence.So he can do it.But he seems really driven to follow a system that just doesn't get wins.
 

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