Roberto Martinez discussion

[BlueToff]

But its not three points is three points, when the only teams we can beat are in the relegation zone. So if we beat newcastle then great, but it is no progress because we have already beaten them! And by that point, The progression comes from beating teams who aren't going down currently, i.e stoke liverpool, west brom etc

But it would be progress up the table... it would be three points, is what I'm saying.

Just because we beat Chelsea earlier in the season, it didn't mean that a victory over Chelsea (that we had taken away from us by a poor ref) would have been any less important. And they were (and still are) below us at that time.

I agree, we need to beat the teams like Palace, Stoke, Liverpool etc (we've already beaten West Brom away, so by your logic beating them wouldn't be progress )

 

[maccavennie]

This season is far from over. The fanbase on the whole are growing impatient and I understand that but for all these shouts of Martinez Out, I have yet to see any body name a replacement that would improve us and is available right now to leave the job they're in to join us. It may have been building for a while, but suggesting MARTINEZ OUT without any actual suggestion of at least one name is pure knee-jerk for me.

All I'm trying to present is a balanced argument.

We've conceded 109 goals in 80 games since the start of last season in all comps. That stat has been thrown around a lot. We have 18 wins from 61 league games - yes, that's not good enough (and 30 wins from the 80 in total).

However, we've also scored 127 goals in the 80 games since the start of last season. We've lost 22 of those 61 league games (and 25 of the 80 games in total). The problem is clearly too many draws - this season it has been down to throwing points away late on.

You keep saying that no one has given a name who could replace Martinez, when there's a poll in another thread with pages of suggestions, some in jobs and some without jobs. Some may be more likely than others but it's still suggestions. Only because there isn't one stand out alternative doesn't mean we should stick to what we have when what we have clearly isn't working.

No one can know if a manager will leave a club unless that manager is approached. Everton is a massive draw still and a lot of managers would be interested imo.

 

[Kiwi]

That really is a crap word to use, when posting on a open forum. Not knowing who been affected by what.

Just saying

Fair do.

 

[Ashtonian]

But it would be progress up the table... it would be three points, is what I'm saying.

Just because we beat Chelsea earlier in the season, it didn't mean that a victory over Chelsea (that we had taken away from us by a poor ref) would have been any less important. And they were (and still are) below us at that time.

I agree, we need to beat the teams like Palace, Stoke, Liverpool etc (we've already beaten West Brom away, so by your logic beating them wouldn't be progress )

if west brom were in the bottom three then by itself with no wins before it hen no it woudn't be progress.

it is about context, winning newcastle, then winning a game next month, and one the month after is still poor (which is what we have mainly done for 2 seasons). We beat newcastle stoke west brom (they are coming up arent they?) and then you can say fair enough, we are learning to win. Other than that, beating newcastle and losing to stoke is pretty much no different to last month! That is the difference in progression!

 

[Kiwi]

No mate it isn't is it!?

Nil Satis and all that...

Saw a shout the other day that we should be attracting Ancelotti to the job...

Deary me. And I thought Mourinho was overly optimistic, at least he said in the past he could consider managing us.
That's just delusion.

 

[BlueToff]

if west brom were in the bottom three then by itself with no wins before it hen no it woudn't be progress.

it is about context, winning newcastle, then winning a game next month, and one the month after is still poor (which is what we have mainly done for 2 seasons). We beat newcastle stoke west brom (they are coming up arent they?) and then you can say fair enough, we are learning to win. Other than that, beating newcastle and losing to stoke is pretty much no different to last month! That is the difference in progression!

I agree on the whole mate I think, we're just coming at it from two different perspectives. We need to string a run together, that is vitally important, so yes, beating just Newcastle would not present progress. Beating Newcastle, getting a point at Stoke and beating West Brom would be better... Beating all three would be fantastic.

But I'm trying to just take it game by game. We're Everton, we do Everton things.

 

[BlueToff]

Deary me. And I thought Mourinho was overly optimistic, at least he said in the past he could consider managing us.
That's just delusion.

Genuinely mate, it was a real post by a real person on twitter. Think they were a member of the Blue Union, though I may be wrong...

 

[Cork Evertonian]

But it would be progress up the table... it would be three points, is what I'm saying.

Just because we beat Chelsea earlier in the season, it didn't mean that a victory over Chelsea (that we had taken away from us by a poor ref) would have been any less important. And they were (and still are) below us at that time.

I agree, we need to beat the teams like Palace, Stoke, Liverpool etc (we've already beaten West Brom away, so by your logic beating them wouldn't be progress )

Had taken away from us because of a poor ref.Granted it was a factor but we did hand Chelsea 3 goals on a plate.Just like in countless other matches under the current regime.Were ahead of Chelsea yes but there are 11 other teams ahead of us in the league table as well including the likes of Watford and Leicester.

 

[Cork Evertonian]

No mate it isn't is it!?

Nil Satis and all that...

Saw a shout the other day that we should be attracting Ancelotti to the job...

Im afraid this board doesn't do and never has done Nil Satis Nisi Optimum.Nil Satis Nisi Optimum has been replaced with a staying in the premiership is enough for us philosophy.

 

[BlueToff]

Had taken away from us because of a poor ref.Granted it was a factor but we did hand Chelsea 3 goals on a plate.Just like in countless other matches under the current regime.Were ahead of Chelsea yes but there are 11 other teams ahead of us in the league table as well including the likes of Watford and Leicester.

It was a factor??

It was the 8th minute of 7 minutes added time and it was a good yard offside.

We didn't gift it them on a plate, that was a very good offside trap... actually, it was excellent defending to catch Terry offside. Not the players' fault the linesman did not do his job mate.

And well, there's 19 other teams below Leicester as well. You can't really slate us for being below them...

 

[BlueToff]

Im afraid this board doesn't do and never has done Nil Satis Nisi Optimum.Nil Satis Nisi Optimum has been replaced with a staying in the premiership is enough for us philosophy.

In the last 13 seasons before this one, we've finished outside the top 7 on four occasions. 03-04 (17th), 05-05 (11th), 09-10 (8th) and 14-15 (11th).

I suggest that's more than just 'staying in the prem', mate, and I'm in no way a fan of this board.

 

[Cork Evertonian]

It was a factor??

It was the 8th minute of 7 minutes added time and it was a good yard offside.

We didn't gift it them on a plate, that was a very good offside trap... actually, it was excellent defending to catch Terry offside. Not the players' fault the linesman did not do his job mate.

And well, there's 19 other teams below Leicester as well. You can't really slate us for being below them...

I can indeed by disappointed with a team of our talent being stuck in mid table for a second consecutive season.When a team with inferior players like Leicester are in the title race.We did indeed hand Chelsea 3 goals on a plate just like we hand nearly every team we play handy goals on a plate.

 

[Cork Evertonian]

In the last 13 seasons before this one, we've finished outside the top 7 on four occasions. 03-04 (17th), 05-05 (11th), 09-10 (8th) and 14-15 (11th).

I suggest that's more than just 'staying in the prem', mate, and I'm in no way a fan of this board.

The board failed to back David Moyes financially after the 2009 FA Cup final.They were too busy selling off players.They failed to financially back Roberto Martines in January 2014 when such backing could have secured a top 4 finish.Finishing outside the top 7 should not be the limit of our ambitions.Nil Satis Nisi Optimum and all that mate.

 

[BlueToff]

I can indeed by disappointed with a team of our talent being stuck in mid table for a second consecutive season.When a team with inferior players like Leicester are in the title race.We did indeed hand Chelsea 3 goals on a plate just like we hand nearly every team we play handy goals on a plate.

You can be unhappy about us being mid-table, but not about a freak run like Leicester are having.

No, we did not 'gift them three goals'. Howard and Jagielka balls'd up for their first. Not down to the managers style at all, just poor defending from our skipper and even worse keeping.

For their second, we failed to get tight and they punished us - courtesy of a huge deflection off Besic that sent it in.

Their third, we did not in anyway gift them. We played a well-timed offside trap that caught the goal-scorer offside. The linesman/ref didn't do their job. You're deluded to argue that.

 

[BlueToff]

The board failed to back David Moyes financially after the 2009 FA Cup final.They were too busy selling off players.They failed to financially back Roberto Martines in January 2014 when such backing could have secured a top 4 finish.Finishing outside the top 7 should not be the limit of our ambitions.Nil Satis Nisi Optimum and all that mate.

Martinez has said time and time again he doesn't like doing business in January.... that first season was no different. Even if he had the money, I don't think he'd have used a whole lot of it. Six months later we made our record signing...