Roberto Martinez discussion

[BigDuncis Blue]

Agree on this. Can I suggest that - and I know that the team need to propel the fans etc - that instead of boos after three minutes at Goodison, it might be a bit more fearful for opposition teams if there were Everton/player chants etc. Barkley, for example, was fantastic the other night. Get right behind him from the off like the away support did. He's the epitome of a confidence player, as are Stones and Del, and to an extent Rom. Get them four playing at home and the rest usually follow suit...

Boos after 3 mins....I must be deaf

 

[BlueToff]

Cause and effect though. Martinez's ineptitude has caused the poor atmosphere. Up to him to get fans excited again.

Our fans are never going to accept the horrific disregard for defence that his style brings.

The atmosphere at Goodison has been poor when we have been playing well at times mate.

Like you said, cause and effect. Instead of doom and gloom and booing, why not focus on the players that have done well (Del, Barks, Rom) etc. at the start of a game. For 5 minutes, instead of booing or moans, chant Barkley's song when he gets on the ball? Chant Del's song, chant Stones' song? It's just a suggestion, as maybe it would help see an improvement on the pitch, that would in turn lead to a better atmosphere.

 

[ToffeeTim]

The atmosphere at Goodison has been poor when we have been playing well at times mate.

Like you said, cause and effect. Instead of doom and gloom and booing, why not focus on the players that have done well (Del, Barks, Rom) etc. at the start of a game. For 5 minutes, instead of booing or moans, chant Barkley's song when he gets on the ball? Chant Del's song, chant Stones' song? It's just a suggestion, as maybe it would help see an improvement on the pitch, that would in turn lead to a better atmosphere.

I see it as the team's job to win the fans round again. In fact roberto is in very real danger of losing the fans for good. The point of no return at goodison is close. We can chant as much as we want but it has nowt effect on our defending.

 

[BlueToff]

This is my concern though. At what stage do the board think it's now unacceptable. To me we are already well past that stage but they are just so gutless and accepting of mediocrity that I doubt they are close to getting rid of him.

We're 12th, not 18th. If the decision at Chelsea, who, as it stands, are closer to relegation than we are, went our way, we'd be 10th, 2 points behind the RS, for example.

We are also in the midst of what appears to be a takeover, again, doesn't seem the best time to change.

And, from a footballing perspective, maybe they do believe Martinez is the man for the job for now, and the summer is the time to re-assess. Just because something is not happening how you or the majority feel it should, does not mean it is gutless or accepting mediocrity.

 

[Efcjake]

This is my concern though. At what stage do the board think it's now unacceptable. To me we are already well past that stage but they are just so gutless and accepting of mediocrity that I doubt they are close to getting rid of him.

The thing is, he knows it, we know it, Moyes knew it. We won't sack a manager unless we're getting relegated. It's not the way the club is run.

 

[BlueToff]

I see it as the team's job to win the fans round again. In fact roberto is in very real danger of losing the fans for good. The point of no return at goodison is close. We can chant as much as we want but it has nowt effect on our defending.

No, but there isn't any chants? That's my point. And what they do do is show the (young) players the crowd are behind them, that they should not be scared of doing something wrong and getting jeered for it - which usually results in players like Barkley (who are now marked up so tight by the opposition it is ridiculous to think he still manages to do some of the stuff he does) regressing to sideways passing. That isn't Martinez' instructions. That's the opposition doing a job and a player being scared of making a mistake, in some cases, down to the crowd's reaction.

I am not blaming the crowd. It is down to the team. But it goes hand in hand. We've played some fantastic stuff this season and when the crowd is behind the team there is nothing better. All I'm saying is I think player chants or the like would be more effective than booing three minutes into a game...

 

[4737carlin]

What's wrong is that he's said it for months at this stage and nothing has changed.

The rubbish that he spouts is worse than the crap Rodgers spoke but he gets away with it because the Spanish accent sounds better than the norn iron accent.

True this, look at LVG been horrible to the media so he is getting it back from them, Rodgers just wasn't a very nice person. Now Roberto seems like a nice person, so gets a easy ride.

He has had a go at the officials, the fans, lets hope he takes the bait and has a pop at some of the media who are starting to write about his management, be good if he takes the bait and has flak coming at him from all sides, will only get him another step closer to the door.

 

[ToffeeTim]

We're 12th, not 18th. If the decision at Chelsea, who, as it stands, are closer to relegation than we are, went our way, we'd be 10th, 2 points behind the RS, for example.

We are also in the midst of what appears to be a takeover, again, doesn't seem the best time to change.

And, from a footballing perspective, maybe they do believe Martinez is the man for the job for now, and the summer is the time to re-assess. Just because something is not happening how you or the majority feel it should, does not mean it is gutless or accepting mediocrity.

Accepting 12th place going into February for EVERTON football club is gutless and unacceptable. They might disagree but you'd expect nothing less as they spend their lives trying to lower the club's stature by lowering expectations. Unfortunately they've largely suceeded. Any season where we aren't champions is ultimately failure. Obviously thats massively unrealistic and a long way off but that's the mentality we need and should at all times be working towards.

The board are content with mere survival. And martinez can't deliver on his talk.

 

[BlueToff]

Boos after 3 mins....I must be deaf

Against Swansea, there were audible boos/jeers just before Besic hit the post. That got the whole crowd up again and, understandably, when Besic got injured, it went flat.

 

[BlueToff]

Giles has spoken!!!! Bit rich coming from him who has made his living for the past 30 years from talking - didn't do much as a manager. However, leaving that aside, again some hard but fair points being made.....


http://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...talks-too-much-for-his-own-good-34408060.html

John Giles: Everton boss Roberto Martinez talks too much for his own good

Roberto Martinez must start delivering soon or all his fine words will mark him as a talker and not a winner. If his team was as fluent as he is in a press conference, he would have no problems at all.

But I've always thought that he talks too much for his own good and uses words to bat away reality.

After losing to Manchester City in the midweek League Cup semi-final, it was all about the Raheem Sterling cross and the fact that everyone else watching the game saw the ball go out of play and the officials didn't.

Of course I understand how much that must have hurt Martinez and his players. But there were other moments in the game which caused self-inflicted damage.

The problem for Martinez is that his flow of words cannot hide shortcomings in his defence and more generally, in his team's ability to capitalise on a winning position.

He focuses on bad decisions but the real problem lies closer to home. It's a defence mechanism which is acceptable from a winning manager because he usually corrects the faults which cause a poor performance or an individual player to play badly.

But it becomes an irritating whine if a manager is constantly blaming everything but the obvious for bad results.

Martinez has not been shy about selling himself or the group of players he is working with and predicting great things for his team. But that sounds like an election promise to Everton supporters, who see a very talented young squad but no sign of progress.

They are a tolerant bunch, the Everton faithful. They gave David Moyes (pictured above) as much time as he wanted and gave him an ovation when he was leaving because they knew what he had done for the club.

I think it's fair to say that Martinez has improved the squad but he is also enjoying the benefits of Moyes' careful stewardship of the club at all levels and particularly the academy.

Martinez has bought carefully and quite well to add to the home grown stock of players like Ross Barkley and John Stones but he has also made costly mistakes.

Aiden McGeady is clearly one of them but you'd never guess that from the way the Everton manager talks and it is this part of his personality which worries me the most and will trip him up eventually, as it did Brendan Rodgers.

He is far too willing to insult everyone's intelligence by painting a rosy picture when all I see is thorns.

In Ireland, we have watched McGeady for years. We know he has an independent streak which sometimes comes into conflict with authority but we also know he can do truly wonderful things with a football.

For me, unfortunately, he has never done it often enough and to be honest, I don't think he ever will which is a great, great pity.

There are moments when he does things with a football which lift your spirit and a few seconds later, he drops you back down on the floor like a deflated balloon.

I don't know why McGeady cannot be more consistent and I don't know why his time at Everton has been so disappointing, apart from the injury issues he had to deal with.

But he has been fit for a number of weeks now and it is very telling that he cannot even make it into a match day squad.

And yet Martinez speaks about McGeady as if he will be the star turn next season for Everton.

He has spoken about finding a loan move for McGeady and helping him out in his quest for regular football to prepare for Euro 2016 so that he can come back to Goodison refreshed and ready for pre-season. That's a load of old nonsense. If he was straight about McGeady he would tell us that the player has been a huge disappointment and the big salary he is earning could be used elsewhere to greater effect.

Of course he can't say that but why say anything at all? People are not stupid. Managers in England with a few quid to spend and an eye on McGeady know that he's available and will take the appropriate steps without Martinez spinning like a top.

But he ploughs on with nicely crafted sentences which read well but mean nothing.

There is another item of circumstantial evidence which makes me believe that Martinez is now swimming against the tide and that his reputation as a top coach has been inflated.

He's had James McCarthy for seven of the lad's nine seasons as a professional footballer and that's a long time; long enough to identify, talk about and work on weaknesses in his game.

I believe that McCarthy has the talent within him to be more than he is and I would see it as Martinez's duty to help him achieve his maximum potential.

The fact that he hasn't implies some element of failure of management and coaching and Martinez prides himself as a coach.

I don't say this to attack McCarthy. Perhaps his personality makes him the player he is and I don't know him well enough to know either way.

But I do know that the small changes in McCarthy's game which could make a huge difference should be easy to explain in a half hour with a few videos and a chat.


That's the job of the coach and Martinez has had seven seasons to work on it without any noticeable change.

Herald Sport

McCarthy has been injured for two months. While he's been out we've won one league game. Suggests to me that he's a pretty good player, and he's been helped in becoming that by his six years (?) under Martinez...

 

[lancs blue]

Attacking, direct and energetic football from the start will get Goodison rocking. Tappy, tappy football at walking pace sucks all positivety out of the ground and encourages the opposition. Its up to the players and staff to engage the fans.

 

[ToffeeTim]

No, but there isn't any chants? That's my point. And what they do do is show the (young) players the crowd are behind them, that they should not be scared of doing something wrong and getting jeered for it - which usually results in players like Barkley (who are now marked up so tight by the opposition it is ridiculous to think he still manages to do some of the stuff he does) regressing to sideways passing. That isn't Martinez' instructions. That's the opposition doing a job and a player being scared of making a mistake, in some cases, down to the crowd's reaction.

I am not blaming the crowd. It is down to the team. But it goes hand in hand. We've played some fantastic stuff this season and when the crowd is behind the team there is nothing better. All I'm saying is I think player chants or the like would be more effective than booing three minutes into a game...

My point still stands. We can chant like those palace ultra whoppers till we're blue in the face but it won't make a martinez side defend any better. The crux of the matter is that his sides are piss poor defensively and he has no clue how to strike the necessary balance.

 

[BigDuncis Blue]

Against Swansea, there were audible boos/jeers just before Besic hit the post. That got the whole crowd up again and, understandably, when Besic got injured, it went flat.

No there wasnt.

 

[BlueToff]

My point still stands. We can chant like those palace ultra whoppers till we're blue in the face but it won't make a martinez side defend any better. The crux of the matter is that his sides are piss poor defensively and he has no clue how to strike the necessary balance.

When they have confidence, the team plays better. That includes defending.

 

[BlueToff]

No there wasnt.

There was, i heard them, I said at the time in the match thread. I'm not making it up mate. The lad on 5live the other night also said it. There were boos, moans and groans just before Besic picked up the ball and ran with it before hitting the post.