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Roberto Martinez discussion

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Watch him, he's always aware of what's going on behind him, which is massively to his credit. Not many players who play(ed) in this role score many goals. When they do they are normally memorable - Carsley against the RS

Yep sorry lad, realised my reply came across as slightly aggressive and I worded it poorly.

I agree. He's a better defensive midfielder than he is an attacker. He is a good box-to-box player, as the one thing he lacks to be able to sit deep and dictate play is a good passing range.

McCarthy, for me, is better sitting deep and then driving forward making a third-man run into/towards the box. All the goals that he has been involved in (directly by scoring or an assist) have come in this way.

He's not a player who can dribble past two or three like Barks can. But he is very good at receiving possession and finding a sharp pass - see the assists for Kone vs Sunderland and Rom vs Stoke as examples.
 
Yep sorry lad, realised my reply came across as slightly aggressive and I worded it poorly.

I agree. He's a better defensive midfielder than he is an attacker. He is a good box-to-box player, as the one thing he lacks to be able to sit deep and dictate play is a good passing range.

McCarthy, for me, is better sitting deep and then driving forward making a third-man run into/towards the box. All the goals that he has been involved in (directly by scoring or an assist) have come in this way.


Unfortunately players like that - Makele, Deuchamps etc are the exception rather than the norm, hence whey they are so expensive !
 
Giles has spoken!!!! Bit rich coming from him who has made his living for the past 30 years from talking - didn't do much as a manager. However, leaving that aside, again some hard but fair points being made.....


http://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...talks-too-much-for-his-own-good-34408060.html

John Giles: Everton boss Roberto Martinez talks too much for his own good

Roberto Martinez must start delivering soon or all his fine words will mark him as a talker and not a winner. If his team was as fluent as he is in a press conference, he would have no problems at all.

But I've always thought that he talks too much for his own good and uses words to bat away reality.

After losing to Manchester City in the midweek League Cup semi-final, it was all about the Raheem Sterling cross and the fact that everyone else watching the game saw the ball go out of play and the officials didn't.

Of course I understand how much that must have hurt Martinez and his players. But there were other moments in the game which caused self-inflicted damage.

The problem for Martinez is that his flow of words cannot hide shortcomings in his defence and more generally, in his team's ability to capitalise on a winning position.

He focuses on bad decisions but the real problem lies closer to home. It's a defence mechanism which is acceptable from a winning manager because he usually corrects the faults which cause a poor performance or an individual player to play badly.

But it becomes an irritating whine if a manager is constantly blaming everything but the obvious for bad results.

Martinez has not been shy about selling himself or the group of players he is working with and predicting great things for his team. But that sounds like an election promise to Everton supporters, who see a very talented young squad but no sign of progress.

They are a tolerant bunch, the Everton faithful. They gave David Moyes (pictured above) as much time as he wanted and gave him an ovation when he was leaving because they knew what he had done for the club.

I think it's fair to say that Martinez has improved the squad but he is also enjoying the benefits of Moyes' careful stewardship of the club at all levels and particularly the academy.

Martinez has bought carefully and quite well to add to the home grown stock of players like Ross Barkley and John Stones but he has also made costly mistakes.

Aiden McGeady is clearly one of them but you'd never guess that from the way the Everton manager talks and it is this part of his personality which worries me the most and will trip him up eventually, as it did Brendan Rodgers.

He is far too willing to insult everyone's intelligence by painting a rosy picture when all I see is thorns.

In Ireland, we have watched McGeady for years. We know he has an independent streak which sometimes comes into conflict with authority but we also know he can do truly wonderful things with a football.

For me, unfortunately, he has never done it often enough and to be honest, I don't think he ever will which is a great, great pity.

There are moments when he does things with a football which lift your spirit and a few seconds later, he drops you back down on the floor like a deflated balloon.

I don't know why McGeady cannot be more consistent and I don't know why his time at Everton has been so disappointing, apart from the injury issues he had to deal with.

But he has been fit for a number of weeks now and it is very telling that he cannot even make it into a match day squad.

And yet Martinez speaks about McGeady as if he will be the star turn next season for Everton.

He has spoken about finding a loan move for McGeady and helping him out in his quest for regular football to prepare for Euro 2016 so that he can come back to Goodison refreshed and ready for pre-season. That's a load of old nonsense. If he was straight about McGeady he would tell us that the player has been a huge disappointment and the big salary he is earning could be used elsewhere to greater effect.

Of course he can't say that but why say anything at all? People are not stupid. Managers in England with a few quid to spend and an eye on McGeady know that he's available and will take the appropriate steps without Martinez spinning like a top.

But he ploughs on with nicely crafted sentences which read well but mean nothing.

There is another item of circumstantial evidence which makes me believe that Martinez is now swimming against the tide and that his reputation as a top coach has been inflated.

He's had James McCarthy for seven of the lad's nine seasons as a professional footballer and that's a long time; long enough to identify, talk about and work on weaknesses in his game.

I believe that McCarthy has the talent within him to be more than he is and I would see it as Martinez's duty to help him achieve his maximum potential.

The fact that he hasn't implies some element of failure of management and coaching and Martinez prides himself as a coach.

I don't say this to attack McCarthy. Perhaps his personality makes him the player he is and I don't know him well enough to know either way.

But I do know that the small changes in McCarthy's game which could make a huge difference should be easy to explain in a half hour with a few videos and a chat.


That's the job of the coach and Martinez has had seven seasons to work on it without any noticeable change.


Herald Sport


"But he ploughs on with nicely crafted sentences which read well but mean nothing"

Indeed.
 

I agree with you on McCarthy as regards his importance to Everton. We miss him badly when he is not fit.

However, I think most Irish fans also feel he has got more in him that could elevate him to even higher quality if he was coached properly.

Irish fans do not have as many opportunities to see McCarthy as we do. And when they do see him, he is in a different, less familiar environment.

I should think that their opinions are based largely on what they have seen of him playing for Everton - but on television.

I doubt that they are any better equipped to judge McCarthy's potential than we are.

And when McCarthy had the chance to follow Martinez to Everton, he took it.
 
All the articles coming out now ... Did they all just decide to descend at once or are they all just copying one another?

All descended at once. The band wagon must be fit to burst!

I think the point is, that if this had happened the other way round, (like, for example, when Stones fouled Sterling at the Etihad in the league and no pen was given), that City/Pellegrini would not be getting the stick - all the articles would be about how the referees need help/technology.

Now, what all those articles fail to realise is, when Martinez has complained about a ref decision, it has been when a clear decision that has definitely effected that match has not gone in our favour/as it should go.

He complained at Bournemouth, when the time was added on despite us scoring with 5 seconds left on the clock - the referees should not be able to add stoppage time in stoppage time. Proved by Atkinson the other day.

He complained vs Stoke. Yes, we threw away a lead - he did not dispute that. He complained about Clattenberg's bizarre decision to originally signal 'play on' - which he definitely did - before nearly 5 seconds later changing his mind after Stoke players had got up to him.

He complained against Chelsea. He admitted we had thrown away a lead, but we had done well to go and then get the winner. He was correct to complain. The defence did their job by catching Terry offside, and if the officials had done their job, we'd have got a massive 3 points.

And then, he complained against City. He complained because the ball was clearly out of play and both the ref and linesman (same as the one vs Chelsea) were well placed to see it. He complained because, though City had been pressing (as expected they would be when a £500mil team is losing a semi-final tie at home and needs 2 goals to go through), the game changed entirely on that one incident.

But no, instead, they say Martinez cannot defend, and fans have a go at him/other fans for making excuses.

In all of the above situations, he has admitted that we threw away a lead. Yesterday he said "we must apply ourselves better in those fine margins". Ourselves - not the officials etc - he's said ourselves.

But, also in each of the above, the decisions sited have gone against us and cost us either points or a good chance (and at 71 minutes into a league cup semi final when we were more than holding our own) of getting to a final.

Fine margins. The team needs to be better, yes. So when the team does its job (as it did vs Chelsea, as it did vs City), it is understandable and entirely reasonable to expect the officials to do their job.

If it was happening to a media darling team, or to an extent a London club, there would be out-cry. There would be calls for technology and Atkinson to be dropped. Same if Liverpool had've lost the other night on that offside decision.

With us, it's now just the convenient thing for fans and pundits to say - oh, well it's all down to not being able to defend. I'd say playing a perfect offside trap in the 8th minute of 7 minutes added on at Stamford Bridge counts as good defending, for example.
 

We're 12th, not 18th. If the decision at Chelsea, who, as it stands, are closer to relegation than we are, went our way, we'd be 10th, 2 points behind the RS, for example.

We are also in the midst of what appears to be a takeover, again, doesn't seem the best time to change.

And, from a footballing perspective, maybe they do believe Martinez is the man for the job for now, and the summer is the time to re-assess. Just because something is not happening how you or the majority feel it should, does not mean it is gutless or accepting mediocrity.

Too many what ifs. The here and now , based on reality is that Everton are slowly but surely being drawn down the league the current form table is a concern and games like Swansea and the inability to take points are stacking

As I posted elsewhere an injury to say Lukaku would be a disaster and as teams like Sunderland who have a habit of putting together a late season run or Newcastle who are adding to their squad know they are in a fight I would suggest that 40 points won't be enough for survival and based on current results I am far from convinced
 
Too many what ifs. The here and now , based on reality is that Everton are slowly but surely being drawn down the league the current form table is a concern and games like Swansea and the inability to take points are stacking

As I posted elsewhere an injury to say Lukaku would be a disaster and as teams like Sunderland who have a habit of putting together a late season run or Newcastle who are adding to their squad know they are in a fight I would suggest that 40 points won't be enough for survival and based on current results I am far from convinced

Okay mate fair enough that's your opinion.

Who would you get in to replace Martinez if he left this week then? Genuine question. There are lots of managers out there that may improve us, sure. However, they at this time not available or wouldn't leave the job they are in (e.g. De Beur at Ajax) to join us half way through the season.

Also, many of the names being touted have never managed in England, yet alone the PL. Now PL experience is not vital, but if we were to change in the middle of the season - given the young squad we have - I would prefer someone with that experience and know-how, and even then there is no guarantee of success.

If we are to change it, then it has to be in the summer for me. If Martinez has to go - which I don't want him to at this point - but if he did leave, then my choice would be Flores from Watford. Managed at big clubs such as Valencia and Atletico (enjoyed particular success at Valencia). Doing well at Watford with a blend of strong defensive work and no lack of attacking intent. But again, he would only be potentially available in the summer.
 
All descended at once. The band wagon must be fit to burst!

I think the point is, that if this had happened the other way round, (like, for example, when Stones fouled Sterling at the Etihad in the league and no pen was given), that City/Pellegrini would not be getting the stick - all the articles would be about how the referees need help/technology.

Now, what all those articles fail to realise is, when Martinez has complained about a ref decision, it has been when a clear decision that has definitely effected that match has not gone in our favour/as it should go.

He complained at Bournemouth, when the time was added on despite us scoring with 5 seconds left on the clock - the referees should not be able to add stoppage time in stoppage time. Proved by Atkinson the other day.

He complained vs Stoke. Yes, we threw away a lead - he did not dispute that. He complained about Clattenberg's bizarre decision to originally signal 'play on' - which he definitely did - before nearly 5 seconds later changing his mind after Stoke players had got up to him.

He complained against Chelsea. He admitted we had thrown away a lead, but we had done well to go and then get the winner. He was correct to complain. The defence did their job by catching Terry offside, and if the officials had done their job, we'd have got a massive 3 points.

And then, he complained against City. He complained because the ball was clearly out of play and both the ref and linesman (same as the one vs Chelsea) were well placed to see it. He complained because, though City had been pressing (as expected they would be when a £500mil team is losing a semi-final tie at home and needs 2 goals to go through), the game changed entirely on that one incident.

But no, instead, they say Martinez cannot defend, and fans have a go at him/other fans for making excuses.

In all of the above situations, he has admitted that we threw away a lead. Yesterday he said "we must apply ourselves better in those fine margins". Ourselves - not the officials etc - he's said ourselves.

But, also in each of the above, the decisions sited have gone against us and cost us either points or a good chance (and at 71 minutes into a league cup semi final when we were more than holding our own) of getting to a final.

Fine margins. The team needs to be better, yes. So when the team does its job (as it did vs Chelsea, as it did vs City), it is understandable and entirely reasonable to expect the officials to do their job.

If it was happening to a media darling team, or to an extent a London club, there would be out-cry. There would be calls for technology and Atkinson to be dropped. Same if Liverpool had've lost the other night on that offside decision.

With us, it's now just the convenient thing for fans and pundits to say - oh, well it's all down to not being able to defend. I'd say playing a perfect offside trap in the 8th minute of 7 minutes added on at Stamford Bridge counts as good defending, for example.


People who want to act like Newcastle fans with short termist self.entitlement issues wont look at the facts mate.

look at the amount of posts in the transfer thread saying "i wouldnt trust martinez with money":

Galloway
Mori
McCarthy
Besic
Deulofeu
Lukaku

Other than Kone whose been a flop and McGeady another disaster he has an amazing record in the transfer market especially when adding Barry and Cleverley on frees.

But suddenly because hes had tremendously bad luck as well as individual errors from developing youngsters and an over.the hill keeper suddenly hes terrible in the transfer market.

So, quite clear theres either short termism and self entitlement issues from a lot of people which is bizarre after moyes and seeing as we havent won anything for 20 odd years....or theyre off their nuts.
 
People who want to act like Newcastle fans with short termist self.entitlement issues wont look at the facts mate.

look at the amount of posts in the transfer thread saying "i wouldnt trust martinez with money":

Galloway
Mori
McCarthy
Besic
Deulofeu
Lukaku

Other than Kone whose been a flop and McGeady another disaster he has an amazing record in the transfer market especially when adding Barry and Cleverley on frees.

But suddenly because hes had tremendously bad luck as well as individual errors from developing youngsters and an over.the hill keeper suddenly hes terrible in the transfer market.

So, quite clear theres either short termism and self entitlement issues from a lot of people which is bizarre after moyes and seeing as we havent won anything for 20 odd years....or theyre off their nuts.

In fairness, I've seen people say don't give him money, but I've also seen a lot of people (who want him out) saying that his transfer record cannot be questioned.

Agree on the principle though mate. Some people are of the opinion he needs to go now, I don't share it.
 
In fairness, I've seen people say don't give him money, but I've also seen a lot of people (who want him out) saying that his transfer record cannot be questioned.

Agree on the principle though mate. Some people are of the opinion he needs to go now, I don't share it.


Imagine, hes only 42 years old....Antonio Conte at Juve is massively rated but 46 years old and before joining juve his record was a bit sketchy...

Ive always seen next year as being the "first year" to begin judging him....by that time he should have pretty much his own team and the deadwood out.

It also will be interesting to see who he buys when he has money to spend...for someone supposedly poor defensively hes only bought Mori and Galloway...none of the others are his choice.
 

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