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Roberto Martinez discussion

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TheHumbleEgg said:
I'm assuming you mean next season? Really, you're honestly willing to grant that as his starting point? I find that astonishing.

Mate, what constitutes his 'own' team & the 'deadwood'??? I'm not being funny or sarky, genuinely curious...

Really, there's no supposed about that, it applies right across the board in his 9 years of management thus far. It is without any shadow of doubt an 'issue'.
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The most ridiculous thing is that our best season under Martinez was achieved with all the 'dead wood'.
 
@dannyboy

You see, i dont see why we should be doing better with this squad of players at all...

Howard -- Useless
Coleman -- Injured for loads of season
Baines -- Injured for loads of season
Jags -- injures for loads of season
Mori -- Adapting to new team/league/country
Galloway -- Young and inexperienced
McCarthy -- Out of form then injured
Besic -- Injured for loads of season
Barry -- Played well but no pace/guile
Barkley -- Top class but still learning
Deulofeu -- Top class but still learning
Mirallas -- Terrible start to the season and injured
Kone -- Indian summer then useless
Lukaku -- Plays every game as no competition
lennon -- done ok

Hes got to wait till a load of players are out of contract as how to move them on otherwise which will be this summer and hes spent the money he has had very well......his style needs specific players, hes been lumbered with a lot of past it or injured players who he needs to move on gradually and also bring in players gradually due to financial constraints at the very least.

So many injuries and also bad luck and ref decisions...but for even a couple of results going our way we would be top 8 easily even with all these problems which arent the managers fault.

I find myself agreeing with alot of @BlueToff posts but lets say we did remove Martinez in the summee then i wouldnt go for Watford manager or even these shouts for that chile manager or anyone mentioned so far...

I want someone who can get us into a position to win titles, with the tv money we have we need to make careful signings still as others will have even more money to spend BUT need a manager not afraid to sign players for big money (lukaku) or Youth with huge potential (deulofeu) or players from random places (besic / mori)...

Also we need someone who can go toe to toe with the top sides in the league with confidence (which we have done every game against the big sides ofher than UTD for clear reasons)....and someone not afraid of losing games for long term gain developing young players who will gain from experience.

I dont know another manager off the top of my head who would stay with us long term and build a club from the ground up, theyre either the same old names (Mourinho,Benitez etc) or sudden one season wonders (Rainieri) or young managers with some clear weaknesses (Monk/Howe) unproven other than with title favourites (De Boer)...

With Martinez we have massively suffered from referees...if it went the other way and we benefitted from dodgy decisions we would be far higher placed....if our players werent frequently injured then where would we be....?

All these players people are afraid of losing in the summer, theyve either been bought by Martinez or developed by him into international and global recognition....Lukaku we'd make £30mil profit on, perhaps similar for Deulofeu and who knows about the others.

Hes added so much value in £££ terms to the playing side that if they did leave id be confident he could bring in more current / future stars....just look at Mori, now hes our best centre back in some eyes and people dont mind stones being sold...on that note, if Stones 8 major highlighted errors never happened wed be in the final of the cup and several places higher up the table...

We have to wait till he has built his own squad and hes got a new keeper to sign and a left winger as well as add competition for places with his players NOT those left him by Moyes.

Pienaar,Osman,Hibbert,Oviedo,Gibson all out in the summer on frees + he needs to move out players hes signed or kept as stopgaps till he has money like Howard,Kone,McGeady etc then we will see what our side looks like...

One thing im confident with is that each year we look much stronger gradually than the last...next season is when i will start to judge him.
 

Saint Domingo said:
Can't have it both ways here. People are arguing that Martinez has not been able to choose his own defenders, then also arguing that he's not had Moyes' back 4 to pick.

We have more than enough quality at the back even in the reserves to field a decent defence. Stop constantly looking for excuses.
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It's clear that we have good defenders, and Martinez has already demonstrated that he can improve on Moyes and deploy them - with Barry and McCarthy - in a constructive new formation.

2012/13 6 Everton 38 16 15 7 55 40 +15 63 Moyes
2013/14 5 Everton 38 21 09 8 61 39 +22 72 Martinez

The puzzle is that the defence was so unpredictable last season and has continued to be this season.

There have been frequent changes to the back four this season. Baines, Jagielka, Stones and Coleman have all suffered injuries. And Stones is suffering growing pains at the moment in his development into a top player. Perhaps the absence of McCarthy has been more significant than we thought.

And there have been a series of individual mistakes from generally reliable players. On top of that, we have suffered from cruel deflections and shocking decisions at critical moments.

The question is; Can we recover from this position? Opinions differ! I think that Martinez has shown that he has the skills to reshape the team and take us forward. But I think it would be absurd and foolish to even consider replacing him before the end of the season.

 
dannyboy said:
Score all the goals you want but if you don't win games you're wasting your time.

I am positive about some of the players we have at the club, unfortunately I'm negative about the manager being able to use them in a way that wins games.
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Surely the ability to score goals is a positive!
 
Saint Domingo said:
Can't have it both ways here. People are arguing that Martinez has not been able to choose his own defenders, then also arguing that he's not had Moyes' back 4 to pick.

We have more than enough quality at the back even in the reserves to field a decent defence. Stop constantly looking for excuses.
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Thats not true is it...

LB -- Baines (been injured for long periods)or who?
LCB -- Jags (beem injured for ages) or Mori (adapting)
RCB -- Stones (developing) or Browning (out for season)
RB -- Coleman (been injured alot) no backup

Major injuries all over the place and when hes signed players (Mori/Galloway) who need time to develop/adapt they have performed better than the players who are the veterans...

You also cant have it both ways, if he hadnt signed Lukalu maybe he could have signed others...loads didnt want stones sold but perhaps another superstar may have signed for buttons and performed better...

He cant change the entire squad overnight on limited resources.
 
Stanley Parker said:
It's clear that we have good defenders, and Martinez has already demonstrated that he can improve on Moyes and deploy them - with Barry and McCarthy - in a constructive new formation.

2012/13 6 Everton 38 16 15 7 55 40 +15 63 Moyes
2013/14 5 Everton 38 21 09 8 61 39 +22 72 Martinez

The puzzle is that the defence was so unpredictable last season and has continued to be this season.

There have been frequent changes to the back four this season. Baines, Jagielka, Stones and Coleman have all suffered injuries. And Stones is suffering growing pains at the moment in his development into a top player. Perhaps the absence of McCarthy has been more significant than we thought.

And there have been a series of individual mistakes from generally reliable players. On top of that, we have suffered from cruel deflections and shocking decisions at critical moments.

The question is; Can we recover from this position? Opinions differ! I think that Martinez has shown that he has the skills to reshape the team and take us forward. But I think it would be absurd and foolish to even consider replacing him before the end of the season.
Click to expand...


No matter what people say, Besic played against Chelsea at the start of the season and was injured after...McCarthy was out of form and in a central position not DM as usual.....with them both fit and in their correct roles we may have done far better.

With Stones next to Jags he may have cut out these mistakes as opposed to possibly trying too much to be the senior partner to help Mori acclimatize...also Baines / Coleman looking poor this season due to injury problems...

So many "ifs" and "maybe" situations but ALL OF THEM negative for us...

Where would we be if we had received positive ref decisions and not as many key injuries i wonder.
 

Some interesting opinions for and against him though, frankly, I struggle to agree with any of the 'for' reasoning because he's pretty well lost me.

What is apparent though, hugely, is the next 3-4 games are gonna shape his future because ANY detrimental results at all and he's gonna further isolate the fan-base I feel, he'll end up at a point of no return from which he has no defence at all.

And should ROM take a knock/need resting at any point then that cannot be deemed 'unlucky', it'd be bad management in not replacing NAISMITH. Which, from my understanding, there is little intention to do before the close of play this window...
 
Zatara said:
No matter what people say, Besic played against Chelsea at the start of the season and was injured after...McCarthy was out of form and in a central position not DM as usual.....with them both fit and in their correct roles we may have done far better.

With Stones next to Jags he may have cut out these mistakes as opposed to possibly trying too much to be the senior partner to help Mori acclimatize...also Baines / Coleman looking poor this season due to injury problems...

So many "ifs" and "maybe" situations but ALL OF THEM negative for us...

Where would we be if we had received positive ref decisions and not as many key injuries i wonder.
Click to expand...

No point asking that mate, I'm certain he'd have still found a way to arse things up...:)
 
Carlito said:
I think most teams would be able to score goals at an impressive rate if they completely abandoned the concept of defending.

It's telling that when they managed to keep it tight against Tottenham and Man City, it came at the expense of goals at the other end.
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Or could it have been that we would play that way this season but due to many injuries to players in defence and also Besic and McCarthy Martinez didnt feel we would be able to shut up shop? Or perhaps lukaku /barkley / deulofeu were knackered due to olaying every game as we donf have the resources to sign other stars like Man UTD can...

My point is that we just dont know and wont know until we see his squad which includes having quality competition for places....
 
Like last season he has managed to get me almost not even arsed going into every game as i know we are gonna bugger it up and usually we do now, well done Roberto for managing to kill all expectation from the fans again with one of the most exciting squads we have ever had
 

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