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Roberto Martinez discussion

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Saint Domingo said:
Here we go again. They're not direct comparisons. Stop denigrating every point with a asinine trivial answer and actually make a counter point of your own.

The wider point here is that City and Arsenal have targets at the start of the season, they are different to ours currently, but all three teams have targets. Despite bad injuries (in Arsenal's case far worse than ours) they are still competing for their targets. We've not had really bad injuries but we are miles away from our targets and the excuse so conveniently trotted out is injuries.

Every team in the league has them but I can't think of another team underperforming as much as we are given the talent in the squad. Relatively speaking we are probably the worst performing side in the league currently.
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Okay, fair point, but again, you seem to think i'm hiding behind the injuries as an excuse. I wasn't, I was merely stating that Martinez, this season, has not had what many would consider our 'first choice' defence to pick from, until Wednesday just gone vs City.

What do you believe our targets were? Fan targets and targets of the team differ.

I think we can guarantee that neither of the above included us being 12th at the start of Feb in those targets. Fair enough?

I presume the team/manager's realistic target at the start of the season was to be in the mix for a European place by around this time. That has not been met, yet. We are, however, not far away, despite all of the poor results. Now, that is down in large part to teams like United/Chelsea etc having shocking seasons by their own standards. However, that is the situation we find ourselves in. We are as close to sixth as we are 18th. The season is well and truly in the balance. I don't believe, based on that, that now would be a good time to change managers - especially when all the people suggesting we should have so far offered no viable alternatives that would guarantee an improvement on what we have that are available/would join us at this time.
 
MoutsGoat said:
Its a classic cult action, deflect blame, it was the refs, it was the injuries, it woz chelsea.

Everytime Martinez opens his mouth he reminds me of a kopite.
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But I did not blame the injuries, or Chelsea. I blame the officials for costing us three points and a much-needed victory at Chelsea, which they did.
 
BlueToff said:
I'm not saying that at all mate. Saint Domingo named the four players in our first choice defence - I simply pointed out it is a defence that hasn't played together at all this season. I didn't say that we had to bring in bad players to replace them... I didn't imply that was why we haven't got the results.

I just presented a fact.
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Mate,Martinez stated that "We" (including him) would need to do XYZ several times and yet was pilloried for "blaming others"...thats a fact and yet ignored simply to blame martinez himself....irony at its finest...or is that hypocracy?

Apparently we have loads of strength in depth in defence...

Baines (been injured and then gradually been improving) whose replacement was a 19 year old with 3 games to his name....Galloway. Galloway did very well and was a Martinez signing.

Jagielka (injured at a key point in the season and missed all the holiday games when we had loads of games) whose replacement was a player new to the league and country.....Mori. Mori is now considered our best defender by most Posters now and a Martinez signing.

Stones having loads of errors as he has ZERO competition for his position and ZERO cover.

Coleman been injured and his replacement was Browning whose out for the season....


So barely any competition and cover and those we do have who have performed are the 2 signings in defence made by someone who apparently couldnt spot a good defender and now cant tactically manage a defence -- yet shows he can when needed.

All a bit bizarre to be honest.
 
MoutsGoat said:
He should be replaced at the end of the season with Vitor.
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Haven't got an issue with that. I've said numerous times, which people seem to ignore, that come the summer it will be time to re-assess (unless he has won the FA Cup and we've got around 10th or above, or he's got us into the top 7).

My point is people wanting him gone right now. They have, as of yet, being unable to name a viable alternative. I just get 'well there's loads of top managers out there that would work with our squad' or 'it's not my decision'. If they're so adamant in wanting Martinez to leave this minute, I think they should also have an idea of who should replace him.
 

BlueToff said:
But I did not blame the injuries, or Chelsea. I blame the officials for costing us three points and a much-needed victory at Chelsea, which they did.
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It's two seasons of garbage. Of course there's been bad decisions but we respond pathetically to adversity too. Like did we create a chance after falling behind on wed?

A better team reacts better to things going against them. A better team doesn't concede 110 goals in a season and a half. A better manager doesn't try the same thing over and over and get confused why the result is the same. A good manager doesn't comment on how bad it would be to move stones to right back, then actually try it away to the best team in the country. A good manager doesn't give a goalkeeper 18 months of shambolic performances to turn things around. A better manager doesn't sign Tom cleverely ffs.

In short there's no defence for our failings.
 
BlueToff said:
Ah, the old, 'We don't have to make the decision'.

I've got nothing wrong people suggesting he should leave, at all. It's opinion. Everyone has one.

What I would like, is for people who are saying he should leave right now, is for them to at least suggest a viable alternative. Is that not fair?
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Football is not my professional area of expertise. I will leave possible replacement for an underperforming manager to those whose professional area, football is. All I'm saying is that those people at EFC (whose job is 'football-centric') need to attend to an underperforming manager. As a general manger I certainly would be.
 
Zatara said:
Mate,Martinez stated that "We" (including him) would need to do XYZ several times and yet was pilloried for "blaming others"...thats a fact and yet ignored simply to blame martinez himself....irony at its finest...or is that hypocracy?

Apparently we have loads of strength in depth in defence...

Baines (been injured and then gradually been improving) whose replacement was a 19 year old with 3 games to his name....Galloway. Galloway did very well and was a Martinez signing.

Jagielka (injured at a key point in the season and missed all the holiday games when we had loads of games) whose replacement was a player new to the league and country.....Mori. Mori is now considered our best defender by most Posters now and a Martinez signing.

Stones having loads of errors as he has ZERO competition for his position and ZERO cover.

Coleman been injured and his replacement was Browning whose out for the season....


So barely any competition and cover and those we do have who have performed are the 2 signings in defence made by someone who apparently couldnt spot a good defender and now cant tactically manage a defence -- yet shows he can when needed.

All a bit bizarre to be honest.
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I think that the defensive woes aren't just down to injuries, as like posters have said we still had good players in the defence. I was just pointing out that when people name all the good defensive players we have, it's key to point out that most defences are dodgy unless they are settled and they get a run together
 

ToffeeTim said:
It's two seasons of garbage. Of course there's been bad decisions but we respond pathetically to adversity too. Like did we create a chance after falling behind on wed?

A better team reacts better to things going against them. A better team doesn't concede 110 goals in a season and a half. A better manager doesn't try the same thing over and over and get confused why the result is the same. A good manager doesn't comment on how bad it would be to move stones to right back, then actually try it away to the best team in the country. A good manager doesn't give a goalkeeper 18 months of shambolic performances to turn things around. A better manager doesn't sign Tom cleverely ffs.

In short there's no defence for our failings.
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It's hard to react to an offside equaliser in the 98th minute.
 
@deipnosophist totally off topic but if youre an australian then you would be surprised what sort of companies have access to superannuation money and the fees they receive for the investments your capital is placed into....

Martinez with money has made the club a small fortune.
 
deipnosophist said:
Football is not my professional area of expertise. I will leave possible replacement for an underperforming manager to those whose professional area, football is. All I'm saying is that those people at EFC (whose job is 'football-centric') need to attend to an underperforming manager. As a general manger I certainly would be.
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Well if football is not your professional area of expertise, why are you so adamant that Martinez is the wrong man for the job? You'll say the results, but then you've just admitted, you're not an expert... This is my point mate, that even reasonable posters like yourself who are just as entitled to your opinion as I am mine, are unable to think of anyone who could come in right now at this very moment and guarantee success...

hey, maybe it's not just the manager, maybe it's the players as well?
 

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