Roberto Martinez discussion

[bluewally]

To fit an agenda... Maybe.

Anyway, if we are talking solely about league @bluewally, then as my previous post highlighted there's been a markable improvement in our defending in the last seven games compared to the seven games before that (which were arguably 'easier' - though no PL game is ever easy - games).

We have scored one less goal and to me it seems obvious that the main issue now is getting that balance right. We got it perfect against Newcastle and Stoke and to an extent Chelsea (bar a mad two minutes when they brought it back to 2-2). Spurs in the second half and City away in the first half are also good examples.

Swansea we were terrible first half but second we were unlucky not to get something from it. Could easily have had a pen but the main blame has to go for players not getting on the end of some great crosses from Del and Coleman missing two really good chances (both of which set up by Stones who I think was a real miss against WBA as he's the player that can act as a deep lying playmaker).

But again, and i'm just being short because of time constraints, its a collection of ifs and maybes.

 

[Titus Bramble]

Because the opposition was so poor as to make them irrelevant

By that logic can we strike the loss to City in the cup from the record as they are so much better than us?

 

[bluewally]

By that logic can we strike the loss to City in the cup from the record as they are so much better than us?

Be sensible. Carlisle are in league 2, Bournemouth made 6 changes to a team that's 15th in the league. Hardly top quality opposition

 

[banno]

Our football has been good for most of the season. The football does not match the results but the football is better than for many years. Now I would be more worried if the football was not good and equalled the same results as I would not see a way out. My personal opinion is we are on the verge and not far away from finding the correct balance. Its all ifs and buts but I like our football and the way we play will see us improve and improve all the time. I gladly take the step backwards (in terms of results and position) knowing that we can take 2 steps forward with our style. Wish we could do it quicker but we are not blessed with budgets of most teams.

 

[banno]

Be sensible. Carlisle are in league 2, Bournemouth made 6 changes to a team that's 15th in the league. Hardly top quality opposition

Bournemouth made six changes from there previous game that they lost IIRC but overall they had only 3 players that are not classed as first team players. Now look at the Everton team and tell me would you class them all as first team players when you have the likes of Stones, Baines, Mirallas, Del, Besic on the bench or out. Its a squad game and Bournemouth used there squad just like us.

 

[Lanolin]

Why would you take them out though?

In fairness I take them out when looking at whether we've improved, simply because it's very difficult to quantify with them in there.

There's a pretty good chance that had we played Carlisle and that Bournemouth side when we played Leicester and Stoke over christmas then we'd have won both, and certainly not conceded 7 goals, so it's quite tough to get a real idea of whether or not we've improved by counting those results.

 

[BlueToff]

But again, and i'm just being short because of time constraints, its a collection of ifs and maybes.

Just as it's only a collection of ifs and maybes to say we won't (or will) put a run together from now on...

 

[bluewally]

Just as it's only a collection of ifs and maybes to say we won't (or will) put a run together from now on...

Yes but ifs and maybes referring to future events. To say our league form is good based on if this or that had happened we might have won this game or that game isn't right

Our form is we are 11th and have won 2 of the last 7 league games you mentioned

 

[bluewally]

Bournemouth made six changes from there previous game that they lost IIRC but overall they had only 3 players that are not classed as first team players. Now look at the Everton team and tell me would you class them all as first team players when you have the likes of Stones, Baines, Mirallas, Del, Besic on the bench or out. Its a squad game and Bournemouth used there squad just like us.

We named an unchanged 11 if I recall

 

[banno]

We named an unchanged 11 if I recall

Yes we did and we had lost our last game. But if Baines, Stones, Besic, Mirallas and Del had played would you say we had weakened our team?

 

[BlueToff]

Yes but ifs and maybes referring to future events. To say our league form is good based on if this or that had happened we might have won this game or that game isn't right

Our form is we are 11th and have won 2 of the last 7 league games you mentioned

I didn't base that on ifs and maybes mate.

Our points total and goals conceded total have both been better off (slightly and by almost half respectively) in the last 7 league games compared to the 7 before xmas. I think that represents improvement.

 

[willo30]

By that logic can we strike the loss to City in the cup from the record as they are so much better than us?

I'd take out all the cup games as they aren't the issue.
The original statement was

Is there a third of the season left that we are going into in some kind of form? Yes.

Taking recent games into account we have beaten a poor Newcastle side 3-0 with 2 late penalties, beaten a Stoke side who were on a run of no wins or goals on 4 games and beaten by WBA and Swansea. Now just as some are arguing the positives of the WBA defeat it could be argued that there are holes in our 2 wins that could easily be picked. I'm not one to do this as it's the results that matter, it's our bread and butter. I've seen nothing yet to agree with the original statement. We could just as easily carry on playing great attacking football but still walk away with an odd goal defeat, I've seen nothing yet that proves this is changing.
So the original statement to me would read

Is there a third of the season left that we are going into in some kind of form? MAYBE.

 

[BlueToff]

I'd take out all the cup games as they aren't the issue.
The original statement was

Is there a third of the season left that we are going into in some kind of form? Yes.

Taking recent games into account we have beaten a poor Newcastle side 3-0 with 2 late penalties, beaten a Stoke side who were on a run of no wins or goals on 4 games and beaten by WBA and Swansea. Now just as some are arguing the positives of the WBA defeat it could be argued that there are holes in our 2 wins that could easily be picked. I'm not one to do this as it's the results that matter, it's our bread and butter. I've seen nothing yet to agree with the original statement. We could just as easily carry on playing great attacking football but still walk away with an odd goal defeat, I've seen nothing yet that proves this is changing.
So the original statement to me would read

Is there a third of the season left that we are going into in some kind of form? MAYBE.

To add to that though we've also got draws vs a Spurs team in great form, kept the first clean sheet any team has at City in over a year and also were robbed of the win vs Chelsea. Shot ourselves in the foot vs Swansea but created enough to get something out of the game.

So yes, our displays in the last seven games make me think we've picked up our form.

 

[mkrudden]

With the greatest respect to all and the value of freedom to post anything and everything (within reason)...

HOW IS THIS DEBATE STILL GOING ON?! THERE SURELY CAN'T BE ANY FUN IN REPEATING THE SAME THINGS OVER AND OVER?!?!?!

not that it's about me, but my opinion is that the enjoyment is being sucked out of this thread because of the repetition. We've not
played for days yet this is always at the top of the list with the same suspects on both sides going on and on with opinions they made in December.

Surely there are other things that can be discussed?!?!?!?!

Vent over. Apologies. I love a bit of GOT debate but this thread is now beyond tedious.

 

[willo30]

To add to that though we've also got draws vs a Spurs team in great form, kept the first clean sheet any team has at City in over a year and also were robbed of the win vs Chelsea. Shot ourselves in the foot vs Swansea but created enough to get something out of the game.

So yes, our displays in the last seven games make me think we've picked up our form.

Agreed and this is my point. Great performances against Spurs, City, Chelsea etc and we still go and get beat against WBA and Swansea. This is the sort of pattern I haven't seen us changing. We are just too inconsistent and this is how I see the rest of the season panning out.