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Roberto Martinez discussion

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No thats wrong. We have been poor at HOME.

If you cant see the massive changes hes made with the long term in mind in not sure you ever will and probably be totallt shocked when things click next season.

And yes i can say the same things each time as its a long term vision.

Even Bilic admitted he would have lost 3 or 4-0 if the pen went in. Where would you be then? On here praising Martinez tactical masterclass or whinging at something.

Heck when we won against villa and even when we were 3 up people complained.

It's great dealing in hypotheticals. Hypothetically what would have happened if he'd given a free kick on the edge of the box instead of a pen, if Lukaku's shot had come out off the post and not gone in. The 'what if' game is great. What if we didn't have an average manager we'd be potentially in the top 4.

I don't discriminate between home or away games, I just look at the results and the league table and they're not good enough. So what if we're OK away if we're abysmal at home? Away points aren't worth any more than home ones.
 
http://toffeeweb.com/season/15-16/comment/fan/32014.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

An open letter to Roberto
By Brian Viner 05/03/2016
bubble_sm.gif


Dear Roberto,

I am writing this on a crowded train, on my long, weary way home from Goodison Park, where I have just watched Everton lose yet again on their own turf, this time 3-2 to West Ham. Like so many of Everton’s games this season, it was a cracker for the neutrals. But I’m not a neutral.

It will take me three hours to get home. But that’s nothing compared with the two Blues I shared a cab with on the way to the ground from Lime Street. They had come from Norway. And even that is a hop compared with the lad whose taxi I shared on the way back to Lime Street. He had travelled all the way from New York City, just for two days, just for the game.

Of course, that’s the gamble one takes as a football fan. I understand that. And I don’t doubt that you and the players are hurting after squandering yet another commanding lead. But I do hope you might spare a thought for all those who make such a huge investment of time and money to come and see you, week after week. And whose pay-off is a string of painful home defeats.

Now, having said all that, let me add that I like the cut of your jib, Roberto. I think you’re a decent, honourable man, and you understand what it means to follow Everton. Everyone thinks their club is unique, but only Evertonians know that theirs really is. You seem to get that. Moreover, you have added flair to the solidity David Moyes brought. You do get your teams playing entertaining football. I appreciate that.

But I think now is the time to look into your soul, to discover whether you are a man of humility. Because if you are, you will surely accept that defeats such as today’s are down to nobody but you. It was disingenuous of you, perhaps even cowardly, to say that big Rom’s missed penalty – ghastly as it was – was the main reason we lost this afternoon. Players do miss pens. It happens.

However, what I can’t remember happening in my 45 years as a diehard Everton fan is seeing a team so repeatedly and catastrophically incapable of protecting a lead. And that has to be your fault. I watched today’s game, and then discussed it afterwards, in the company of several distinguished ex-pros. I won’t name them because I wouldn’t want to embarrass them. But like me, they were flabbergasted when you replaced Lennon with Niasse.

Like me, and I should think virtually everyone in the stadium, they could see that if Lennon had to come off at all (arguable, given how well he was playing, and how hard he works) then the situation – 2-0 up but a player down – screamed for someone with the experience and defensive instincts to guard our advantage. Barry, in other words. Or even Osman. Not a striker new to the Premier League (who, by the way, looked thoroughly out of his depth from the moment he came on).

I imagine you’d counter that attack is the best form of defence, that Niasse’s job was to hold the ball up, that closing a game down smacks of negativity (which you hate). And you have other arguments in your locker. You can point to your extensive coaching qualifications, to your FA Cup winner’s medal with lowly Wigan, to the fact that you see the players every day in training, and we don’t.

But don’t let any of that blind you to what is glaringly obvious to everyone who loves Everton perhaps even more than you do. There is no shame in protecting a lead. It is just as much of a footballing art as establishing a lead. But, manifestly, you don’t know how to do it, how to re-organise your personnel, how to make match-saving substitutions. So please, be humble. Find someone who can teach you, and do it soon, for your own benefit as much as the club’s.

Otherwise you will never be the success in management that you plainly aspire to be, unless of course you become the manager of a convenience store. You’ll be great at that, because you never shut up shop. Joking aside, though, you might find that as new investors lead Everton towards a brave new world, you’re not part of the advance.

With best wishes,

Brian
 
Still more mentions of 'Baffling' substitutions costing us the match. UTTER TRIPE.

As I said earlier.

We go a man down, he takes off Stones and puts Besic on to revert to a back 4 and take control of the midfield. 30 mins later we are 2-0 up and cruising.
15 mins to go Lennon is tiring badly (great performance and making up for being a man down). Bobby takes him off and replaces him with another winger who desperately needs some game time to integrate. It should keep the pressure on them going forward and maintain the 2-0 status quo. West Ham push up and score two.
Bobby sees Rom is tired and isn't getting the ball any more so replaces him with Barry to fill out the midfield and hold onto the draw, Naisse goes up top.
Payet scores under a minute later.

You can see the logic in what he did (if you can't put a new player on with 15mins to go whilst 2-0 up at home when can you?). If we'd have put Barry on for Lennon then it would have been telling West Ham that we weren't going to bother trying to get out of our half anymore, yes you could argue in hindsight that his decisions were wrong, but you could also argue that the substitutions didn't actually change anything. Going down to 10 men killed us today. It took away all our options as we tired in the second half.

Bobby didn't make the tired mistakes, what more could he have done differently at the time?

Rom had 5 mins to go, after his TWO misses he would still run and run until the final whistle to try and make up
 
The problem isn't that he changes this player or that player, that Lukaku misses the penalty or not, the problem is that the team is a reflection of the manager. The manager thinks conceding goals is no big deal, the manager prefers to lose than to win ugly, the manager thinks that bottom half is progression. When you give your players that many excuses for failure don't be surprised if they fail you. I think Martinez has done many good things and bought some good players but he is not a winner he's a Wenger without the budget. It's a pity because I like a lot of things about him but football is about winning and winning requires ruthlessness and martinez doesn't have it and therefore his team doesn't have it.
 
No thats wrong. We have been poor at HOME.

If you cant see the massive changes hes made with the long term in mind in not sure you ever will and probably be totallt shocked when things click next season.

And yes i can say the same things each time as its a long term vision.

Even Bilic admitted he would have lost 3 or 4-0 if the pen went in. Where would you be then? On here praising Martinez tactical masterclass or whinging at something.

Heck when we won against villa and even when we were 3 up people complained.
This is two seasons of inconsistencies and an inability to see a game out. It was a masterclass till 70 min Mark. Then a reoccurring theme happens. Martinez needs results not excuses
 

Who would you replace him with for the LONG TERM and to grow a dynasty from the ground up. In the same way he wants to turn us into Barca who would you like to emulate?

What is Martinez's long term plan? Develop some top players in the safety of midtable that other clubs can then buy? Great for our balance sheet but not for winning anything. What does a Martinez dynasty look like? Why are you confident that he will create one? He's done nothing since he came here despite having money to spend.

This question always gets banded with assumptions. The main one being that Martinez guarantees success if you just give him time (completely unproven so far at Wifan or at Everton), and that any other manager is just a short term fix. Both are utter rubbish. Why do we even need a managerial dynasty? I'd rather have Mourinho in fur one season and his winning something than another ten years of Martinez's promises on the never ever.
 
http://toffeeweb.com/season/15-16/comment/fan/32014.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

An open letter to Roberto
By Brian Viner 05/03/2016
bubble_sm.gif


Dear Roberto,

I am writing this on a crowded train, on my long, weary way home from Goodison Park, where I have just watched Everton lose yet again on their own turf, this time 3-2 to West Ham. Like so many of Everton’s games this season, it was a cracker for the neutrals. But I’m not a neutral.

It will take me three hours to get home. But that’s nothing compared with the two Blues I shared a cab with on the way to the ground from Lime Street. They had come from Norway. And even that is a hop compared with the lad whose taxi I shared on the way back to Lime Street. He had travelled all the way from New York City, just for two days, just for the game.

Of course, that’s the gamble one takes as a football fan. I understand that. And I don’t doubt that you and the players are hurting after squandering yet another commanding lead. But I do hope you might spare a thought for all those who make such a huge investment of time and money to come and see you, week after week. And whose pay-off is a string of painful home defeats.

Now, having said all that, let me add that I like the cut of your jib, Roberto. I think you’re a decent, honourable man, and you understand what it means to follow Everton. Everyone thinks their club is unique, but only Evertonians know that theirs really is. You seem to get that. Moreover, you have added flair to the solidity David Moyes brought. You do get your teams playing entertaining football. I appreciate that.

But I think now is the time to look into your soul, to discover whether you are a man of humility. Because if you are, you will surely accept that defeats such as today’s are down to nobody but you. It was disingenuous of you, perhaps even cowardly, to say that big Rom’s missed penalty – ghastly as it was – was the main reason we lost this afternoon. Players do miss pens. It happens.

However, what I can’t remember happening in my 45 years as a diehard Everton fan is seeing a team so repeatedly and catastrophically incapable of protecting a lead. And that has to be your fault. I watched today’s game, and then discussed it afterwards, in the company of several distinguished ex-pros. I won’t name them because I wouldn’t want to embarrass them. But like me, they were flabbergasted when you replaced Lennon with Niasse.

Like me, and I should think virtually everyone in the stadium, they could see that if Lennon had to come off at all (arguable, given how well he was playing, and how hard he works) then the situation – 2-0 up but a player down – screamed for someone with the experience and defensive instincts to guard our advantage. Barry, in other words. Or even Osman. Not a striker new to the Premier League (who, by the way, looked thoroughly out of his depth from the moment he came on).

I imagine you’d counter that attack is the best form of defence, that Niasse’s job was to hold the ball up, that closing a game down smacks of negativity (which you hate). And you have other arguments in your locker. You can point to your extensive coaching qualifications, to your FA Cup winner’s medal with lowly Wigan, to the fact that you see the players every day in training, and we don’t.

But don’t let any of that blind you to what is glaringly obvious to everyone who loves Everton perhaps even more than you do. There is no shame in protecting a lead. It is just as much of a footballing art as establishing a lead. But, manifestly, you don’t know how to do it, how to re-organise your personnel, how to make match-saving substitutions. So please, be humble. Find someone who can teach you, and do it soon, for your own benefit as much as the club’s.

Otherwise you will never be the success in management that you plainly aspire to be, unless of course you become the manager of a convenience store. You’ll be great at that, because you never shut up shop. Joking aside, though, you might find that as new investors lead Everton towards a brave new world, you’re not part of the advance.

With best wishes,

Brian

In some ways Brian, welcome home
 

http://toffeeweb.com/season/15-16/comment/fan/32014.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

An open letter to Roberto
By Brian Viner 05/03/2016
bubble_sm.gif


Dear Roberto,

I am writing this on a crowded train, on my long, weary way home from Goodison Park, where I have just watched Everton lose yet again on their own turf, this time 3-2 to West Ham. Like so many of Everton’s games this season, it was a cracker for the neutrals. But I’m not a neutral.

It will take me three hours to get home. But that’s nothing compared with the two Blues I shared a cab with on the way to the ground from Lime Street. They had come from Norway. And even that is a hop compared with the lad whose taxi I shared on the way back to Lime Street. He had travelled all the way from New York City, just for two days, just for the game.

Of course, that’s the gamble one takes as a football fan. I understand that. And I don’t doubt that you and the players are hurting after squandering yet another commanding lead. But I do hope you might spare a thought for all those who make such a huge investment of time and money to come and see you, week after week. And whose pay-off is a string of painful home defeats.

Now, having said all that, let me add that I like the cut of your jib, Roberto. I think you’re a decent, honourable man, and you understand what it means to follow Everton. Everyone thinks their club is unique, but only Evertonians know that theirs really is. You seem to get that. Moreover, you have added flair to the solidity David Moyes brought. You do get your teams playing entertaining football. I appreciate that.

But I think now is the time to look into your soul, to discover whether you are a man of humility. Because if you are, you will surely accept that defeats such as today’s are down to nobody but you. It was disingenuous of you, perhaps even cowardly, to say that big Rom’s missed penalty – ghastly as it was – was the main reason we lost this afternoon. Players do miss pens. It happens.

However, what I can’t remember happening in my 45 years as a diehard Everton fan is seeing a team so repeatedly and catastrophically incapable of protecting a lead. And that has to be your fault. I watched today’s game, and then discussed it afterwards, in the company of several distinguished ex-pros. I won’t name them because I wouldn’t want to embarrass them. But like me, they were flabbergasted when you replaced Lennon with Niasse.

Like me, and I should think virtually everyone in the stadium, they could see that if Lennon had to come off at all (arguable, given how well he was playing, and how hard he works) then the situation – 2-0 up but a player down – screamed for someone with the experience and defensive instincts to guard our advantage. Barry, in other words. Or even Osman. Not a striker new to the Premier League (who, by the way, looked thoroughly out of his depth from the moment he came on).

I imagine you’d counter that attack is the best form of defence, that Niasse’s job was to hold the ball up, that closing a game down smacks of negativity (which you hate). And you have other arguments in your locker. You can point to your extensive coaching qualifications, to your FA Cup winner’s medal with lowly Wigan, to the fact that you see the players every day in training, and we don’t.

But don’t let any of that blind you to what is glaringly obvious to everyone who loves Everton perhaps even more than you do. There is no shame in protecting a lead. It is just as much of a footballing art as establishing a lead. But, manifestly, you don’t know how to do it, how to re-organise your personnel, how to make match-saving substitutions. So please, be humble. Find someone who can teach you, and do it soon, for your own benefit as much as the club’s.

Otherwise you will never be the success in management that you plainly aspire to be, unless of course you become the manager of a convenience store. You’ll be great at that, because you never shut up shop. Joking aside, though, you might find that as new investors lead Everton towards a brave new world, you’re not part of the advance.

With best wishes,

Brian

tumblr_m7af1rr0s01rzfyxio1_500.gif
 
What is Martinez's long term plan? Develop some top players in the safety of midtable that other clubs can then buy? Great for our balance sheet but not for winning anything. What does a Martinez dynasty look like? Why are you confident that he will create one? He's done nothing since he came here despite having money to spend.

This question always gets banded with assumptions. The main one being that Martinez guarantees success if you just give him time (completely unproven so far at Wifan or at Everton), and that any other manager is just a short term fix. Both are utter rubbish. Why do we even need a managerial dynasty? I'd rather have Mourinho in fur one season and his winning something than another ten years of Martinez's promises on the never ever.
He talks a good game.
We are building something special.
We play great football.
We have the best squad in years.
We are on the verge of something great.
Sadly in real life the results don't say anything to back that up, a collection of good players doesn't mean we have a good team because we quite clearly don't have one, and for every good bit of football we have an inept performance just around the corner and no real signs that it going to change it hasn't over the last year or so.
Sick of hearing how good we supposed to be its a myth with no subbstance.
Sound like one of those fellas on the god channel , believe in me and you can have a better after life , just send me your donations so I can carry on my good work, your hardship and suffering will be worth it in the long term,
Hallelujah bobby is the man to lead us to the promised land.
His brown shoe's walk in the footsteps of the lord
 
No thats wrong. We have been poor at HOME.

If you cant see the massive changes hes made with the long term in mind in not sure you ever will and probably be totallt shocked when things click next season.

And yes i can say the same things each time as its a long term vision.

Even Bilic admitted he would have lost 3 or 4-0 if the pen went in. Where would you be then? On here praising Martinez tactical masterclass or whinging at something.

Heck when we won against villa and even when we were 3 up people complained.

We would have been praising Martinez you're right.

Then he brought on Niasse and showed his idiocy.

And is our away form that good? We're 11th in the league. Won 9 league games all season. With one of the highest scoring strikers in the league

People act like it's just the last 2 seasons that were poor but really the blip was his first season with us before he managed to drill the defensive ability out of our players.

His entire history in the premier league bar that season is one of poor defences

If he hasn't learned how to do it in 10 years then when. Exactly how long term is this vision. Last year we were being told he's building. Give him til Christmas, then the summer, then christmas again and now it's next season

What if there isn't really a long term plan and he's just a poor coach who doesn't know how to defend

I could coach that team of players to be the highest scorers in the league if I didn't have to worry about defending

Out
 

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