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Roberto Martinez discussion

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Ultimately his philosophy has failed because it's inflexible. Rather than adapt to the players abilities he asks the players to adapt to his tactics and in some cases the players are not capable. You have to cut your cloth to suit. Ranieri didn't ask Huth and Morgan to stride out from defense and be phenomenal and ping balls all over the pitch. No he just asked them to defend and let the technical players do the rest. Bobby's philosophy is too rigid and one dimensional.
 
outdone bilic all game ? so when song came on at 60 minutes and started running the show why did he wait till 89 mins to bring on Barry at 2-2 ?

As I said, until the 75th minute when he took Lennon off and brought Niasse on...

When Song came on, he really didn't start pulling any strings so stop talking bull. You know why he was so ineffective (and actually gave the penalty away for us), it's because he had Lennon and Besic all around him and Song cannot handle pace. Surprise surprise as soon as Lennon was taken off then there was no one around him and he had the freedom of GP.

We hammered them for the first 15 mins he was on, and should have scored twice with two moves straight through defensive midfield.

The blame for RM is with that sub.
 
Ahhh
The old "if he scores one then he is exonerated from anything else".

Gotcha.

Actually he scored one, made another, and led the line incredibly yesterday and was arguably man of the match.

But yes, place whatever irrational blame you like if it helps you ignore the obvious - and that is we were cruising with 10 men at 2-0 until an incomprehensible sub was made by Martinez.
 

No I don't blame him for the pen miss but in that situation - given how good he had been as you rightly point out - it's disappointing for him not to have put it away.

If we had conceded straight away from that pen miss I may think differently, mind, but ultimately Martinez facilitated our downfall with that change, and he was then let down by the defenders as well.

As I've said, i've not turned on him completely but now I am starting to very much doubt - like a lot of people who want him out do - his ability to change.

To me, in the last few games since the turn of the year we have shown signs of improvement and in some games being excellent. However, there comes a point where signs aren't enough. I thought everything we and he did yesterday was fantastic (bar the pen miss) up until the 76th minute.

I said at the time it was a baffling substitution and as soon as they scored I had very little doubt they would go on to get more goals. And that's why it's so horrible to take - because he had done all the hard work and then messes it up with something that was quite frankly amateur - and the experienced and 'best squad we have in years' lacked the mental capacity and toughness to see the game out.
It's the level of the opposition, if we play someone half decent, we lose. Particularly at home
 
As I said, until the 75th minute when he took Lennon off and brought Niasse on...

When Song came on, he really didn't start pulling any strings so stop talking bull. You know why he was so ineffective (and actually gave the penalty away for us), it's because he had Lennon and Besic all around him and Song cannot handle pace. Surprise surprise as soon as Lennon was taken off then there was no one around him and he had the freedom of GP.

We hammered them for the first 15 mins he was on, and should have scored twice with two moves straight through defensive midfield.

The blame for RM is with that sub.

Completely correct.

Again, Martinez was perfect in how he sent us out for that game. But that doesn't matter when his actual game management is so bad that he undoes anything else he gets right with just how shocking it is. Over and over and over again.
 
Actually he scored one, made another, and led the line incredibly yesterday and was arguably man of the match.

But yes, place whatever irrational blame you like if it helps you ignore the obvious - and that is we were cruising with 10 men at 2-0 until an incomprehensible sub was made by Martinez.
Yet you fail to mention his penalty miss and his one on one miss?
And I'm irrational?
 

Yet you fail to mention his penalty miss and his one on one miss?
And I'm irrational?

I've mentioned them.

He missed a penalty - it happens, oh well. He also made his one on one miss a possibility by rolling two defenders and getting himself in on goal. It took a great save to deny him.

So how is he at fault for conceding three goals off the back of the managers substitution, after dominating the game, scoring once and assisting another?
 
Absolute horse nuts.
The blame is with Lukaku (penalty and one on one sitter), Funes Mori (spate of amnesia which meant he forgot how to jump) and Mirrallas.

The sub was a secondary reason which has been exaggerated by those looking for a way to shoe horn the manager into the criticism


A week ago FM was a future captain and amazing header of the ball. Aggressive. Passionate.

He has a mare but yet it's the managers fault.

Absolutely ridiculous.

No mate you've misunderstood.

Nowhere have I blamed RM for Funes-Mori or Mirallas or Lukaku or anybody else or any of the players.

What I am blaming him for is a quite frankly amateur substitution that nobody in their right mind would make in the situation we were in.

As @Tubey has just said in a reply to me, we both and I think should all give credit to RM for what was a very good and tactically astute performance up until the 75th minute. He set the team out perfectly and was let down by Kev, but even so he rallied them at HT, made a smart sub with Besic and we were bossing the game - even after Lukaku's miss.

He takes Lennon off, and it all goes to pot because his replacement was a forward with no PL experience. There was no logic in it at all. If he wanted to put Niasse on either wait another 10 or take Rom off.

We had Barry and Baines who in that situation were clearly much better choices. Even Del would have provided that sting on the counter taht was stopping the West Ham wingbacks getting so high up the pitch.

RM takes the blame for the sub and ultimately facilitating our collapse. The players - especially the experienced ones - take the blame for the god awful defending.
 
Good job we have 6 away games then........TEN years in the prem and Martinez still hasn't learned - how much longer does he need ????? Not going to win the square root of FA while he's in charge
 

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