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Roberto Martinez discussion

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BigDuncis Blue said:
It is a bit depressing, but that is looking at how BK and the club has stayed loyal to Moyes and to extent RM. The difference now is, RM has lost the majority of the fans, so this could change things. Then again we win on Saturday, it could change again. IMO it shouldnt matter, we win 5.0 on Saturday, he should still get the push
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I totally agree, come what may in the cup he should not be given a another season.

It would be insane to employ someone who keep making the same dull tactical changes in a game and hoping for a different result

First sign of madness that
 
BlueToff said:
Give over. £110mil on 23 players...

that's really not much.

He's underachieving but our motto that loads seem to live by entitles us to nothing.

He's messed up but the players need to shoulder a lot of responsibility as well. They're also failing to prove this theory that they're so great.
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That doesn't tell anything like the full story though. If you start counting players like Mattioni, Henen and Rodriguez then obviously it looks like the average signing has been cheap, but they're not really first team players.

In terms of senior players, in the space of 2 1/2 years he has bought 3 of 4 most expensive players in the club's history, including virtually doubling our previous transfer record with a fee that only 3/4 clubs in the division have ever paid. He has spent serious money, make no mistake.
 
Ratkiller said:
The league table doesn't lie. Those teams that are above us are better than us.
They have won more games and amassed more points.

That's the only way you can measure anything.
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Very true, however i also measure it by the points we have lost from winning positions.
West Ham, Soke, Chelsea, Bournemouth, plus being outplayed at home by very poor sides. his tactics are terrible.
 
Ashtonian said:
who needs to shoulder responasbility in the team though mate?

Lukaku- over 20 goals.
Barkley - neaqrly double figures for goals and assists
Del- nearly double figures for assists
Lennon- arguably our stand out player currently
Besic- keeps getting injured
cleverley- plays well on left, terrible in middle, not his choice where he plays
Barry- apparently our most experienced player and league winner
the defence- suddenly become terrible under a different manager?

I am lost as to who in the team we can point the blame at as well. The only constant factor this last 2 seasons has been the manager, the blame lies with the manager no-one else. any other club would have sacked him by now, and clubs who did sack their managers despite them 'over achieving' have gone on to great success.
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Yep. I said this a few weeks back - I've looked at it and tried to see whether the blame rests largely on the squad, but the truth is they're doing exactly what they're being asked to do. But if you have the manager making suicidal tactical decisions non-stop then there's only so much you can do on the pitch.

Take that West Ham game - the players did everything right and were cruising for 75 minutes at 2-0. Then Martinez did a Martinez.
 

Tubey said:
Yep. I said this a few weeks back - I've looked at it and tried to see whether the blame rests largely on the squad, but the truth is they're doing exactly what they're being asked to do. But if you have the manager making suicidal tactical decisions non-stop then there's only so much you can do on the pitch.

Take that West Ham game - the players did everything right and were cruising for 75 minutes at 2-0. Then Martinez did a Martinez.
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This is why it is so damn frustrating to see this pan out over 2 years. The same as the excuses on here as to why the team were getting 30 yards from goal and passing side wards rather than getting forward, people blamed them rather than the manager.

If you want to actually see how good our team is, you look at the goals scored and the matches that should have been wins. We have aaron bloody lennon starring in our side, yet people want to blame the team for playing badly? there is nothing wrong with our team, and if we continue down this path with the manager, you will get another sign of how good our team is. When they all go on to better teams whilst we are watching it happen and wishing on what might have been. Lukaku will walk into any champions league team, 20 + goals a season? like gold dust in the game, stones, very talented defender, barkley massively influential on the pitch, del, well he was a barca player after all who have option on him, cant be that bad. Our defence could all be starters at the euros, shocking! When all the players don't want to be here anymore, thats the true testament on how good they are.
 
streeky said:
Absolutely terrified that i might see him doing his first presser in pre season next year (shivers)
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You will fume at the lateness of this first presser, due to his tv pundit role during the euros.

Pre-Season shambles threads all over the show.
 
Toast said:
You will fume at the lateness of this first presser, due to his tv pundit role during the euros.

Pre-Season shambles threads all over the show.
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Our pre season will be in the same country as man city's pre season so he can go and spy on his fixation PEP
 
I think he is just a bit of a divvy tbh.

Not in the conventional way,since he is very intelligent in some ways but in the sense I don't think he ever thinks he is doing things wrong. I think he lives in the bubble he has made for himself and dismisses any outside views.

The performances at Everton aren't a new thing all the mistakes he made here are the ones he made for years and years at Wigan and he still hasn't addressed them.

It's becoming more and more apparent / worrying that his first season may have just been a mixture of moyes defensive set up sticking in the minds of the players along with adding his attacking flair to it.. in which case its just a fluke for him as this is his team now and he simply can't replicate it.


I think he has some very good assets, his scouting system (although it is mostly just a continuation of the last set up) is very good.

His handling of the youth set up has been very good too.

But at the end of the day he hasn't been doing it with the first team and that's what counts.

He isn't the right man and now we have a bit of money we need to be ambitious and go get a quality manager who can make the team ruthless.

But the new manager does need to keep in line with what Martinez was doing for the youth system.
 
DanEFC123 said:
give over?

what squad in the 11 teams placed above us are better than ours?
west brom? no
stoke? no
southampton? no
west ham? no
man u? no
liverpool? no
arsenal? yes
chelsea? yes
Leicester? no
spurs?yes
city? yes

we are masisvly under performing, watofrd are 1 point behid and bournemouth 3 points.
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yeh I'm not saying we aren't underachieving.

I'm saying don't say he's spent loads of money as our spend is still not huge compared to teams around us. One thing RM can't be slated for is his work in the transfer market
 

AaronTheBlue said:
I think he is just a bit of a divvy tbh.

Not in the conventional way,since he is very intelligent in some ways but in the sense I don't think he ever thinks he is doing things wrong. I think he lives in the bubble he has made for himself and dismisses any outside views.

The performances at Everton aren't a new thing all the mistakes he made here are the ones he made for years and years at Wigan and he still hasn't addressed them.

It's becoming more and more apparent / worrying that his first season may have just been a mixture of moyes defensive set up sticking in the minds of the players along with adding his attacking flair to it.. in which case its just a fluke for him as this is his team now and he simply can't replicate it.


I think he has some very good assets, his scouting system (although it is mostly just a continuation of the last set up) is very good.

His handling of the youth set up has been very good too.

But at the end of the day he hasn't been doing it with the first team and that's what counts.

He isn't the right man and now we have a bit of money we need to be ambitious and go get a quality manager who can make the team ruthless.

But the new manager does need to keep in line with what Martinez was doing for the youth system.
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I'm of the opinion RM has all the right tools for the job but isn't perhaps able to or willing to change his fundamentals that attack is always the best form of defence.

He has shown flashes of being able to do it, and for 75 minutes on Saturday proved how good he can be.

He then totally messed that up and ultimately it's what's lead me to my position on the fence.

I think the style and system he has set in place can lead to real success down the line, but I'm now not sure he is the right man to build on that and see it through.
 
LouReedwalkonthewildside said:
"Monomania is defined as an excessive preoccupation with one thing or idea"
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You see, for all his faults it's not RM's style that costs us.

We don't concede many goals from faffing about with it and when we click into gear as we have many times this season our attacking play is superb.

It's Martinez's defensive organisation that is costing us and him. Not this idea that his principles are incorrect. It's lazy criticism to say it's because he's obsessed with possession. He isn't. He just isn't obsessed enough with being able to defend as a unit.
 

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