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Roberto Martinez discussion

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Toast said:
You will fume at the lateness of this first presser, due to his tv pundit role during the euros.
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TV punditry is where it should be for Roberto, he can do that, talk with a smile for the cameras, but away from them on the training ground and the sideline he is useless.

He needs to resign and move onto that full time with dignity, avoid a sacking on his CV.
 
Tubey said:
Yep. I said this a few weeks back - I've looked at it and tried to see whether the blame rests largely on the squad, but the truth is they're doing exactly what they're being asked to do. But if you have the manager making suicidal tactical decisions non-stop then there's only so much you can do on the pitch.

Take that West Ham game - the players did everything right and were cruising for 75 minutes at 2-0. Then Martinez did a Martinez.
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Martinez also did everything right up until that point as well.

I'm not signalling out any individual player per-say @Ashtonian , but the squad as a whole does need to look at itself for the times they have also let RM down this season.

As much as he has his faults he can't be blamed for everything. The result the other day came from, IMO, his sub, and then the team also falling to bits.

His position really is edging towards the untenable though if we don't progress in the cup and beat Arsenal.
 
BlueToff said:
You see, for all his faults it's not RM's style that costs us.

We don't concede many goals from faffing about with it and when we click into gear as we have many times this season our attacking play is superb.

It's Martinez's defensive organisation that is costing us and him. Not this idea that his principles are incorrect. It's lazy criticism to say it's because he's obsessed with possession. He isn't. He just isn't obsessed enough with being able to defend as a unit.
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Principles like not being arsed about clean sheets you mean mate?
 
4737carlin said:
TV punditry is where it should be for Roberto, he can do that, talk with a smile for the cameras, but away from them on the training ground and the sideline he is useless.

He needs to resign and move onto that full time with dignity, avoid a sacking on his CV.
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He can be and could be a very very good manager. He's great at bringing young players into the first teams and giving them big roles. He's got solid principles that work going forward.

Ultimately though until he learns that he must defend then he will never get a shot at the big time.

If he could only learn that - and let's be honest he was 15 minutes away and one non-cock up in a game from us all singing his praises for what would have and should have been a superb win - then he'd be fantastic for us.
 

Foot Long Hot Dog said:
So...Bournemouth, Watford and West Brom you mean mate.....
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Bournemouth have spent over £50mil this season.

WBA also broke their transfer record and spent around £30mil give or take.

Watford have also spent a lot this season.

W.Ham, paying a lot and big wages. The RS etc. Only team that hasn't really is Sotton.

That's this season alone.
 
BlueToff said:
His attacking principles and style of play are based in something that breeds success mate.

Unfortunately, for whatever reason, he just can't seem to get to grips that he needs better help than he has in defending.
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Success? Did I miss it mate?

I can see a side that has the worst defensive record in the division though, same as he managed to deliver at his previous side.....
 
Foot Long Hot Dog said:
Success? Did I miss it mate?

I can see a side that has the worst defensive record in the division though, same as he managed to deliver at his previous side.....
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A side that also managed more in terms of a cup win than we have in 20 years (NSNO LAD!!!)

Like it or not, we do play some great stuff and you have to accept that. Ultimately the defending isn't good enough and while the coaching staff and manager must shoulder responsibility for that it is also down to the players to buck their ideas up at times. You're not telling me that an experienced player like Jags suddenly forgets how to defend, or Baines, just because Martinez has taken over.

The players must take some blame, and the manager as well - which has been my stance all along.

However, it's now clear to me that something definitely needs to be done to amend this. I'd like to keep the faith this can be done internally but unfortunately i'm edging towards the other option.
 
I question whether Bill, having seen first hand Moyes' work will really consider Martinez as 'safe as houses' as some posters like to make out. We know Bill has a good relationship with the senior players who cannot all be content (again as some like to state as fact). My guess is that the board were made up that a cheap managerial appointment improved on Moyes in the first season but were then rocked by an absolutely abysmal season especially given the outlay on the likes of Lukaku. Giving Roberto the benefit of the doubt they'll have watched this season with interest. If we go out of the cup and finish outside the Europa places I think it will be curtains for Roberto especially as they see the likes of Leicester and Spurs fly away from us. I don't think they'll trust him with new investment. It's all guess work though but I just don't buy the posters who say he is 100% here to stay under no pressure.
 

BlueToff said:
You see, for all his faults it's not RM's style that costs us.

We don't concede many goals from faffing about with it and when we click into gear as we have many times this season our attacking play is superb.

It's Martinez's defensive organisation that is costing us and him. Not this idea that his principles are incorrect. It's lazy criticism to say it's because he's obsessed with possession. He isn't. He just isn't obsessed enough with being able to defend as a unit.
Click to expand...

2 up against West Ham, we're comfortable, we don't have to chase the game, he should have been looking to make sure West Ham had no chance to get back in the game, so he should have parked the bus and saw the game out, he had options to do this, but he takes Lennon off (I know he was knackered, but as I say, he had other options) and brings on Niasse, a striker. For me it's his obsession with always wanting to play football, and not to go defensive that's the problem. By the way, I'm a Martinez fan, and still want him to stay, but he really does need to start learning from his mistakes.
 
BlueToff said:
A side that also managed more in terms of a cup win than we have in 20 years (NSNO LAD!!!)

Like it or not, we do play some great stuff and you have to accept that. Ultimately the defending isn't good enough and while the coaching staff and manager must shoulder responsibility for that it is also down to the players to buck their ideas up at times. You're not telling me that an experienced player like Jags suddenly forgets how to defend, or Baines, just because Martinez has taken over.

The players must take some blame, and the manager as well - which has been my stance all along.

However, it's now clear to me that something definitely needs to be done to amend this. I'd like to keep the faith this can be done internally but unfortunately i'm edging towards the other option.
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Defensive solidity is acquired by repetitive drills on the training ground.

We don't even practice set piece defending.

Great defensive units are moulded, it's not as simple as sticking 4 decent footballers together and telling them to crack on. That's the point, so it is down to him, and not the players. Give that back line to a more defence minded manager and he'd have them as tight as a drum, as they're all good players.

Saturday was the tipping point for me.
 
LouReedwalkonthewildside said:
2 up against West Ham, we're comfortable, we don't have to chase the game, he should have been looking to make sure West Ham had no chance to get back in the game, so he should have parked the bus and saw the game out, he had options to do this, but he takes Lennon off (I know he was knackered, but as I say, he had other options) and brings on Niasse, a striker. For me it's his obsession with always wanting to play football, and not to go defensive that's the problem. By the way, I'm a Martinez fan, and still want him to stay, but he really does need to start learning from his mistakes.
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Yeah a manager has got to be flexible and adapt to whats taking place at the time. I get the feeling that Bobby has the match drawn out before kick off and what happens on the field doesn't alter his plan. Parking the bus when 2-0 up with ten men is not discarding your principles it's being mentally strong and resolute enough to win in the face of adversity. A much more admirable trait than blind idealism.
 
LouReedwalkonthewildside said:
2 up against West Ham, we're comfortable, we don't have to chase the game, he should have been looking to make sure West Ham had no chance to get back in the game, so he should have parked the bus and saw the game out, he had options to do this, but he takes Lennon off (I know he was knackered, but as I say, he had other options) and brings on Niasse, a striker. For me it's his obsession with always wanting to play football, and not to go defensive that's the problem. By the way, I'm a Martinez fan, and still want him to stay, but he really does need to start learning from his mistakes.
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Will he ever park the bus to hold on a win? Doubt it. He is obsessed by attacking football. He will never be a successful PL manager because he does not care about defending.
 

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