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Roberto Martinez discussion

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Point was, I would rather have Season Martinez back, than punt him. But if the new boss wants to fire him, then fine also.
My concern is that the Martinez we saw in his first year was not the true Martinez, therefore he will never be able to revert to that happy era.

Was the success of the first season partly down to the fact that the squad still inherited the traits of Moyes? Was it partly due to being a surprise?

While offensively we have improved hugely, we've lost the defensive tenacity and rigidity we once held to a point where it's almost comically poor.

Over the last two years he has had time to impose his own doctrine on how we should play, the players he wants and the overall image of the club.

We are also extremely easy to read at home as mentioned above in the Wigan comments, that have made me even more glum than I was earlier.

Slow tempo? Sideways balls? Inflexible? Suicide defending? These are all things which are regularly mentioned on here yet there's no change.

I've tried to stay on the fence and remain patient sincerely hoping that Martinez would make those minute changes that brought about success.

Unfortunately, I just now see too many negatives rather than positives and the list is slowly but surely increasing. Has their been progress?

@davek and others may mention about enthralling football, which I agree there has been, but we simply aren't good enough at winning games.

Can I see that changing? Again no, as we seem to actually be getting worse at it (regressing) rather than progressing towards success.

We're not a club that usually sacks managers and that's a thing we should herald, but a siege mentality of we can't or shouldn't isn't sensible.

I'm not saying he should be sacked; not now or at the end of the season. Rather, unless he can turn things around from now until May...

...unless he show signs of fixing the glaringly obvious frailties that we have... then there should be serious questions whether he's the man for us.
 
At keeping a limited squad in the league, he is. Proven that.

At winning things, playing attractive football, and attracting excellent players, not so much. Proven that.

Bobby has one last chance for me, new boss dependant obvs. 10 game, non negotiable target for next season. Adapt and change, or you are toast. I think that is fair, and I am also confident that if Season One Martinez emerges, we will all be delighted.
Neither are good enough for us. But Pulis is the better manager.
 
aside from all the merits or complaints against RM

...whatever happened to Gerard D? was near the top of the assists stat sheet and worked terrifically with lukaku.
Are we saying Lennon (while good) is been better than our Magic?
Well, Lennon has been our best player since he started getting games. Playing them both would be nice.
 
At keeping a limited squad in the league, he is. Proven that.

At winning things, playing attractive football, and attracting excellent players, not so much. Proven that.

Bobby has one last chance for me, new boss dependant obvs. 10 game, non negotiable target for next season. Adapt and change, or you are toast. I think that is fair, and I am also confident that if Season One Martinez emerges, we will all be delighted.
Can't see it myself. You could argue that was with the help of Stubbs.
 

But we had europe last season so would have played more games.
We are going backwards mate

True we had more games, but if you don't see the improvement in the way we are playing then I despair. We have a +12 goal differential for a reason. Rom is night and day better than last season. Barkley too.

Defensively we've been awful though...no doubt about that.
 
At keeping a limited squad in the league, he is. Proven that.

At winning things, playing attractive football, and attracting excellent players, not so much. Proven that.

Bobby has one last chance for me, new boss dependant obvs. 10 game, non negotiable target for next season. Adapt and change, or you are toast. I think that is fair, and I am also confident that if Season One Martinez emerges, we will all be delighted.
Looks like season 1 was a freak season for him and the players were loaded up with moysie's defensive ways.
He is the same manager he was at wigan.
I don't get the give him another season i am sure it will happen mate,he has had his chance this season with no europe and a better squad yet we are still going backwards.
The proof is in the pudding
 
My concern is that the Martinez we saw in his first year was not the true Martinez, therefore he will never be able to revert to that happy era.

Was the success of the first season partly down to the fact that the squad still inherited the traits of Moyes? Was it partly due to being a surprise?

While offensively we have improved hugely, we've lost the defensive tenacity and rigidity we once held to a point where it's almost comically poor.

Over the last two years he has had time to impose his own doctrine on how we should play, the players he wants and the overall image of the club.

We are also extremely easy to read at home as mentioned above in the Wigan comments, that have made me even more glum than I was earlier.

Slow tempo? Sideways balls? Inflexible? Suicide defending? These are all things which are regularly mentioned on here yet there's no change.

I've tried to stay on the fence and remain patient sincerely hoping that Martinez would make those minute changes that brought about success.

Unfortunately, I just now see too many negatives rather than positives and the list is slowly but surely increasing. Has their been progress?

@davek and others may mention about enthralling football, which I agree there has been, but we simply aren't good enough at winning games.

Can I see that changing? Again no, as we seem to actually be getting worse at it (regressing) rather than progressing towards success.

We're not a club that usually sacks managers and that's a thing we should herald, but a siege mentality of we can't or shouldn't isn't sensible.

I'm not saying he should be sacked; not now or at the end of the season. Rather, unless he can turn things around from now until May...

...unless he show signs of fixing the glaringly obvious frailties that we have... then there should be serious questions whether he's the man for us.


Wouldnt disagree. His comfort blanket is off from next season though. I hope. Give him 10 games. If he still mucks about, fine, get rid.
 

True we had more games, but if you don't see the improvement in the way we are playing then I despair. We have a +12 goal differential for a reason. Rom is night and day better than last season. Barkley too.

Defensively we've been awful though...no doubt about that.
But on the whole we are going backwards with better players.
I mean 4 home wins in nearly 9 months he should be booted out the door for that alone
 
Looks like season 1 was a freak season for him

Stats do back that up. But I would be happy for a serious, 10 game target to be set by the new boss to see if he has the pragmatism to deliver what his Moyes influenced squad did in his first season.

If the new boss thinks different, then fine.
 

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