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Roberto Martinez discussion

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Kiwi said:
The small margins are rightly seen as issues with Martinez, if he can't resolve them then he is flawed as a manager IMO.
Defensive solidity from crosses and closing out games.
They've been ongoing issues and we need them resolved if we are to move forward as a team and club.
If he can't then we need to get someone in who can take the foundations of what he's built, fix the small margins and get us winning and into Europe consistently. Giving him to the end of the season to show he can resolve those issues is a reasonable response.
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I find it amusing that the agreed flaws with Moyes were:
  • Being too defensive and not trying offensively enough to win games
  • Lack of ambition with glass ceiling take and knives to a gunfight
  • Lack of trust and development of young players
Honest question so you think we sought a deliberate opposite or are we prone as fans to polarise traits and assumed failures?
 
chicoazul said:
I find it amusing that the agreed flaws with Moyes were:
  • Being too defensive and not trying offensively enough to win games
  • Lack of ambition with glass ceiling take and knives to a gunfight
  • Lack of trust and development of young players
Honest question so you think we sought a deliberate opposite or are we prone as fans to polarise traits and assumed failures?
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I honestly think Bill when making the decision looked for someone who could work under a budget, bring through young players, and had a plan to get us Champions League footy.
That the man he chose had some of the traits that were lacking in Moyes and seen as a inhibitor to us breaking the glass ceiling of the top 4 is unsurprising, it was time for a different approach.

As fans we defo polarise traits and assumed failures though.
 
On what evidence can you suggest that Martinez was appointed to deliver "Champions League footy". Exactly how many times has he delivered that in his career? If you were to argue he was appointed to deliver a cup, I would agree. But no football club with serious intentions of qualifying for the champions league would have hired a man who just got his previous team relegated.
 
BlueToff said:
I am yes. I haven't hired but have had the responsibility of firing a few people from a previous job. Would I say any of them were fraudsters? No. Just because they aren't up to their job surely doesn't make it that way.

I see your point due to his facade that he puts up but I, personally, think the use of the word fraud is a bit strong. Just opinions though.
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BlueToff said:
I am yes. I haven't hired but have had the responsibility of firing a few people from a previous job. Would I say any of them were fraudsters? No. Just because they aren't up to their job surely doesn't make it that way.

I see your point due to his facade that he puts up but I, personally, think the use of the word fraud is a bit strong. Just opinions though.
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That's a well considered response. I genuinely believe R Martinez has secured a job waaay above his ability : but I appreciate the nuance you articulate...
 

Kiwi said:
Why create meaningless upheaval with a midseason sacking? If hes not good enough, let him go at the end of the season, hopefully he'd have the decency to resign after another bottom half finish if it came to that.
What we offer to our best players is a place of consistency where they can become even better. Why give them yet another excuse to leave?
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Despite my grave (and irreconcilable) misgivings regarding the ability of R Martinez, I don't disagree with your conclusions. It's no good shutting stable doors after the horse has bolted...
...but, imo, the horse HAS bolted, and our Board needs to address this in the summer...
 
Kiwi said:
What would it take for the manager to get you back onside deipno?
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...his ill-conceived exposing of our centre last weekend , was the straw that broke the camel's back for me mate. As a person with military experience, it just rubbed me up the wrong way. He's a general who consigns his troops to die...when they should have been victors.
 
chicoazul said:
All this "coco" "tactically inept" "clueless clown" and "he's lost the dressing room" is a bit daft. I get the upset, I'm feeling it acutely too. I seethe when I see how open the league is this season and what could have been.

But with the change of ownership I'm happily convinced there's better days soon. With or without Martinez. Time will tell but there's no rush now to symbolically fire him now, that's just very daft thinking.
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I don't agree with the coco the clown crap. Very disrespectful.
 
chicoazul said:
All this "coco" "tactically inept" "clueless clown" and "he's lost the dressing room" is a bit daft. I get the upset, I'm feeling it acutely too. I seethe when I see how open the league is this season and what could have been.

But with the change of ownership I'm happily convinced there's better days soon. With or without Martinez. Time will tell but there's no rush now to symbolically fire him now, that's just very daft thinking.
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Yep...we all see it and it's abundantly obvious our home support is part of the problem...pissses me off beyond to no end.
 
chicoazul said:
All this "coco" "tactically inept" "clueless clown" and "he's lost the dressing room" is a bit daft. I get the upset, I'm feeling it acutely too. I seethe when I see how open the league is this season and what could have been.

But with the change of ownership I'm happily convinced there's better days soon. With or without Martinez. Time will tell but there's no rush now to symbolically fire him now, that's just very daft thinking.
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El Coco it is Friend.
 

deipnosophist said:
...his ill-conceived exposing of our centre last weekend , was the straw that broke the camel's back for me mate. As a person with military experience, it just rubbed me up the wrong way. He's a general who consigns his troops to die...when they should have been victors.
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Seems a bit melodramatic to me mate but if that's how you see it, that's how you see it.
 
Kiwi said:
Seems a bit melodramatic to me mate but if that's how you see it, that's how you see it.
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Lennon would not have prevented those goals...just an easy excuse to put all the blame on that sub. The nature of the modern fan.

Our inability to deal with crosses and long balls...we are crap in the air. The players are getting off way too easy. Barry and Besic failed to track Payet for their winner...seemingly not guilty at all.
 
Kiwi said:
Seems a bit melodramatic to me mate but if that's how you see it, that's how you see it.
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I don't trust R Martinez...I suggest our players don't either. The military allegory might sound over-dramatic/melodramatic, but the facts remain. R Martinez is no strategist...and Everton Football Club will continue to suffer/lose under his stewardship.
I agree with you that it is too late to fire R Martinez now...but on the first day of the summer....
 

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