Roberto Martinez discussion

[neil999]

He needs to bring in a new defensive coach and just let him/her handle the defending aspect

That, combined with some decent signings in the summer thanks to an increased transfer kitty, and I think he'll be fine

not sure how that would work, dont we have a tactic as a whole of playing out from the back with attacking full backs...what if the defensive coach disagrees?

tactical changes as a whole or new players or martinez leaving are the way forward

 

[thebluenosebolt]

we were 2-0 up at that point...if you Cant take positives as a team in that position, Well Bob's positivity training aint much cop is it.

 

[bluestevon]

Top fan you lad...

i already replied on that also, were going to turn them over.

Top fan, what for being realistic lad? you do know we haven't won in the last 16 visits to the pit don't you, yet you are already counting the 3 points from the game in hand we are gonna get there, christ your a fan of analysing thigns aren't you?, analyse this, we havent beaten a team who have been in the top half of the table all season when we played them, we haven't won in the last 16 visits to their ground, we don't deal well with teams that press us. but yeah continue being a top fan by being utterly deluded mate, go on lets test this, give us all your predicted results till the end of the season mate?

 

[Zatara]

But here's the thing.

Heads did not go down when Mirallas was sent off.

If anything, the other ten upped their game and it looked like we had the extra man at times.

Nor did they go down when Rom missed the penalty.

In fact, he himself took it very badly and played like a man possessed thereafter......one run in particular was Drogbaesque as defenders bounced off him as he galloped into the box and it took a fine save from Adrian to keep the ball out the net.

Bobby addresses everything except the reason the game changed so dramatically......the stupid substitution.

And I bet the players on the pitch were as puzzled as the rest OF us were when Omar came on for Lennon.

That left the back line exposed on the right and I am sure they had the same sense of inevitability as nearly 40,000 Blues in the ground did when the first goal went in.

That is when heads dropped.

After the manager had shot us in the foot, IMO.

lennon was playing as a support striker by then so it was a like for like replacement.

which actually is what 50% of the posters slagging martinez havent realised....it wasnt even a tactical change by then.

they are then saying if lennon had stayed on...well it shouldnt make any difference as niasee should have performed instead of a shatterred lennon in the same position.

So do we blame lennon for being tired or niasse for being poor or marrinez for some substitution which doesnt affect the fact mori didnt clear headers.

its all very exhausting.

 

[Khalekan]

We haven't sacked a manager in nearly 15 years though, which given how poor Moyes was towards the end here and how abysmal Martinez currently is... that's quite a remarkable stat.

I know, but I think that was more to do with the financial stare we were in rather than the ability of the manager.

In the last century when EFC was not a financial basket case Moyes would never have been given eleven years and Bibby would be in dire straits right now.

 

[BlueToff]

Just playing devils advocate here, but I would say that Barkley, Stones, Deulofeu, Lukaku and Besic would have progressed whoever was the manager. They are extremely talented players who were always highly thought of and are now 22/23 rather than teenagers, so their progression is natural. I would argue that Deulofeu's progress has actually been a little slower than you would hope, particularly in terms of decision making and fitness.

I would also say McCarthy and Coleman are no better than they were 3 years ago. Coleman was already first choice right back despite what some revisionists will tell you, and i vividly remember having the conversation with mates at the time where we all felt we would rather Baines left for United than Coleman.

Lennon has definitely improved, to a player i never thought he would be. Mori has got better but again that may just be down to getting used to the league, same with Robles and Oviedo.

It's a shame that he hasn't got more out of Gibson, McGeady, Mirallas etc, and despite his good work with young players we've bought I do think it's a slight worry that not a single player has been promoted from our youth set up in 3 seasons.

They have though?

Stones, Garbutt, Barkley (to a regular), Galloway, Browning...

They were all youth players - whether through the academy or brought in they were brought into the youth set up.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

So bring someone else into do his job?

That's what most are asking for anyway lol

Not ALL his job

Just the bit he isn't any good at

No need to hate, just delegate

 

[Khalekan]

lennon was playing as a support striker by then so it was a like for like replacement.

which actually is what 50% of the posters slagging martinez havent realised....it wasnt even a tactical change by then.

Two things wrong with that, Zat.

First up, it should not have been a "like fir like" substitution with ten men, a two goal cushion and the clock running down.

It should have been a defensive substitution.

And even if he wanted to go like for like, Del would have been the better option for his more potent threat and ball holding ability.

 

[Ashtonian]

lennon was playing as a support striker by then so it was a like for like replacement.

which actually is what 50% of the posters slagging martinez havent realised....it wasnt even a tactical change by then.

they are then saying if lennon had stayed on...well it shouldnt make any difference as niasee should have performed instead of a shatterred lennon in the same position.

So do we blame lennon for being tired or niasse for being poor or marrinez for some substitution which doesnt affect the fact mori didnt clear headers.

its all very exhausting.

I'm sorry but.....

PEOPLE WHO CRITICISE MARTINEZ ARE TALKING ABOUT 2 SEASONS WORTH OF POOR MANAGING, NOT 15 MINUTES OF FOOTBALL. WE WANT HIM SACKED BECAUSE HE IS A TERRIBLE MANAGER NOT BECAUSE PAYET SCORED AGAINST US.

Sorry, just had to get that out my system.

 

[Tubey]

Not ALL his job

Just the bit he isn't any good at

No need to hate, just delegate

Unless said defensive coach has the authority to smack Martinez on the head whenever he thinks Niasse for Lennon at 2-0 with 10 men is a good idea, it wouldn't make much difference mate.

 

[PITA]

Heads dropped when we missed the pen.
Even the captain, who was on the field, has said so.

If this is what happens when we get a penalty and miss it when 2-0 up let's hope we don't get any more penalties.

 

[AJC5]

I do worry about alot of you in here.
In your professional quests have you ever had setbacks? Do you know of people in your office, or your profession, that show great talent but keep making the same mistakes? How old are those lads/lasses? Why are they kept around? Probably because potential talent is worth patience. Patience. You have to either dedicate yourself to the long term or the short term. We've quite clearly gone for the former. Martinez therefore needs that patience to deliver a long term achievement.

You are like a plague of locusts everytime we lose or everytime the man speaks. You constantly barrage him yet you don't know what's going on behind closed doors. You have 90 mins 1 or 2x per week. Were you seeing what's happening at FF, you might appreciate that slowly but surely these players are improving.

It's a huge, huge rebuilding job that he's doing. Top to bottom. It takes longer than what he's had so far.

If we had shown no reason to be optimistic in the last 2 1/2 years then fair enough. That isn't the case though. We play probably the best football in the league when we are on it. It needs to be more consistent, granted. We need better results. Granted. But we are showing signs of progression despite what the doom-mongering of you would like the rest to believe.

We aren't showing signs of progression. Our record this year is similar to last year. We have scored more goals and been ahead in a lot of matches. We come away from a lot of matches kicking ourselves thinking we should have won but we are still unable to find a balance between defence and attack. We still never play for 90 mins. We still often lack tempo and intensity in our pressing and passing. Our subs are still terrible. More or less the same squad finished 5 two years ago. I fail to see how we are progressing.

 

[Khalekan]

Heads dropped when we missed the pen.
Even the captain, who was on the field, has said so.

Tell that to Rom.

His head certainly didn't drop.

 

[Little Ralphy]

I do worry about alot of you in here.

In your professional quests have you ever had setbacks? Do you know of people in your office, or your profession, that show great talent but keep making the same mistakes? How old are those lads/lasses? Why are they kept around? Probably because potential talent is worth patience. Patience. You have to either dedicate yourself to the long term or the short term. We've quite clearly gone for the former. Martinez therefore needs that patience to deliver a long term achievement.


You are like a plague of locusts everytime we lose or everytime the man speaks. You constantly barrage him yet you don't know what's going on behind closed doors. You have 90 mins 1 or 2x per week. Were you seeing what's happening at FF, you might appreciate that slowly but surely these players are improving.


It's a huge, huge rebuilding job that he's doing. Top to bottom. It takes longer than what he's had so far.


If we had shown no reason to be optimistic in the last 2 1/2 years then fair enough. That isn't the case though. We play probably the best football in the league when we are on it. It needs to be more consistent, granted. We need better results. Granted. But we are showing signs of progression despite what the doom-mongering of you would like the rest to believe.

We’re not talking about an apprentice here. We’re talking about someone who is virtually at the pinnacle of his profession. It’s a job all but 10-15 people in football would want. In any business if the guy at the top isn’t performing then he’s gone, it’s that simple. In fact even in football, many managers have been sacked with better records.


Martinez is one of the longest serving managers in the league in his current role. Hughes and Pellegrini by about a month or so and Wenger by years. He’s had longer than everyone else to sort out a side, from a better starting point than most, and he has been given funds to do so. It’s ridiculous to claim it’s a huge rebuilding job, and he needs more time.


He has a very talented squad at his disposal and he is not getting the best out of them. The problems have been there for a long time with him and he shows no ability to correct them. I’ve said before he tried it last season, and it was dire, so this season he’s just gone back to his tried and trusted.


The quotes from Wigan fans from 3 years ago which were shared yesterday, we’re startling in their accuracy.


I’ve no idea why people continue to support him so blindly, I’ve said it before, football is an interesting game. People can enjoy it without really understanding what is happening. People on here seem to think that football management is all about picking the players to play centre back or right back and then the players make all the decisions on the pitch. It’s an extremely competitive industry and very brutal in the way it treats people. He’s had his chance and he’s shown that he’s not up to the job, it’s time for him to step aside and let someone else take it on.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

not sure how that would work, dont we have a tactic as a whole of playing out from the back with attacking full backs...what if the defensive coach disagrees?

tactical changes as a whole or new players or martinez leaving are the way forward

You'd hope Martinez and the defensive coach would work together to come up with a strategy

I think it's less the playing from the back is the issue and more our organisation at set pieces, our falability when it comes to crosses and our total lack of pressing when the opposition have the ball

You can correct these and still play out from the back just fine

It's worth trying it than sticking with how things are right now

I believe Roberto Martinez can make this work, I truly do, but he has to show some flexibility when it comes to his "vision"