Roberto Martinez discussion

[Blue Truth]

These are my thoughts too. But even then, with the bad luck we've had this season, it wouldn't surprise me then if Lukaku or another key player got a long term injury. The injuries have crippled us this season, and Martinez has been naive in thinking that the trusted older players like Distin, Hibbert and Osman can slot in. They can't and we're paying the price unfortunately. Not entirely Martinez' fault, but he has to realise the situation and act quickly to keep us in the hunt for a Europa League place which I would still be happy with.

Defense is our weakest position depth wise imo. Having Stones back will be a massive boost although he can only fill one of the 3 major gaps we have atm (GK and CBs).

The defense is our problem, it was at the start of the season and it still is now. We have easily thrown away around 10 points because of stupid mistakes and it is massively costing us. If we hadn't have done that we would be in a great position now and there would be barely any complaints.

 

[davek]

It's not fickle in the slightest, the warning signs have been there since pre-season (which was a mess) and as much as I like Martinez, he has clearly failed to adapt to how teams now set up against us. I'm not saying he should go, I'm not saying he's a s***e manger, I'm saying he has to do much better, along with the players.

I've absolutely no doubt we will improve, but even so, I struggle to see how making a perfectly fair criticism of Martinez requires me to 'get a grip FFS' and 'get behind' him - it is possible to support a team and have legitimate concerns at the same time.

lol etc etc...

You stated you were losing faith in him after a relatively brief spell of not hitting last season's heights. That's fickle. 14 games in and still coming to terms with the midweek fixtures. If you add that to the bizarre team selections he's making it gets you the results and performances we've seen. So he needs to start playing players in their right positions and start making changes in-game earlier. The experience of juggling Europe and domestic competition we'll have to be patient with.

That's basically it though. All capable of being remedied easily enough. We all have concerns, but how this rough patch can shake belief in the manager I dont get it.

 

[neil999]

You stated you were losing faith in him after a relatively brief spell of not hitting last season's heights. That's fickle. 14 games in and still coming to terms with the midweek fixtures. If you add that to the bizarre team selections he's making it gets you the results and performances we've seen. So he needs to start playing players in their right positions and start making changes in-game earlier. The experience of juggling Europe and domestic competition we'll have to be patient with.

That's basically it though. All capable of being remedied easily enough. We all have concerns, but how this rough patch can shake belief in the manager I dont get.

exactly big difference between criticism/wanting to him to change than to get rid

at least with martinez we can hope for change WITH him, unlike that previous bloke..

 

[davek]

I can't believe how many A+'s people were giving out in the summer transfer window rating thread, utterly mindblowing

I gave it B- and got slaughtered. I doubt many would feel as strongly about that assessment now!

He left us wide open relying on two 30+ CBs. Players that age (esp Distin's age) can lose form VERY quickly. And he never even looked like sorting a No.10 out.

He needs to have a good January bringing in loan players or small fees for those he cant get on loan.

 

[MACCA75]

Defense is our weakest position depth wise imo. Having Stones back will be a massive boost although he can only fill one of the 3 major gaps we have atm (GK and CBs).

The defense is our problem, it was at the start of the season and it still is now. We have easily thrown away around 10 points because of stupid mistakes and it is massively costing us. If we hadn't have done that we would be in a great position now and there would be barely any complaints.

Defending starts from the front though as well. The ball bouncing off Lukaku or Ross half the time doesn't help. Barry is also having a poor season for me.

I don't think hanging Distin (or Jags) out to dry is quite the answer.

 

[hetion]

Interesting/amusing stat here from Greg O'Keefe:

"Everton have dropped 12 points from winning positions already, the same as they did during the whole of last season.

Based on the frothy premise that their games thus far ended after the first half, they would be second in the table. Instead they're treading water in 11th."

 

[MACCA75]

We go in front and then seem to lack the desire, confidence and competence to get a second goal. We get jittery until inevitable equaliser. Rinse and repeat.

 

[riddick]

We go in front and then seem to lack the desire, confidence and competence to get a second goal. We get jittery until inevitable equaliser. Rinse and repeat.

Which is funny because its literally the opposite we used to do last year. Last year our idea was 'lets put this to bed' and go for another goal, often getting one. We hunted in packs and closed down opposition. This year? 'ehhhhh, lets just sit back and see what they do'.

 

[Dexter]

Of course you did. Of course you thought our defence which was bloody good last year needed a big reboot. Even though we have and always have had limited funds and we only had one striker and that we n injured Kone. Of course. I have no idea what you expected to happen really.

To be honest it doesn't really matter. Can't change whatever happened now.

We've got what we've got. I don't expect a thing in January.

I did give it a D at the time and why are you automatically asuming i'm going on about the defence, i haven't mentioned the defence once, so what are you basing your argument against me on that for, talk about using an imaginary opinion to argue against for christ' sake

 

[Dexter]

I gave it B- and got slaughtered. I doubt many would feel as strongly about that assessment now!

He left us wide open relying on two 30+ CBs. Players that age (esp Distin's age) can lose form VERY quickly. And he never even looked like sorting a No.10 out.

He needs to have a good January bringing in loan players or small fees for those he cant get on loan.

Some people have the foresight of a garden mole, i actually think B- was very generous, the number 10 position for me would have had the most benefits if we had gotten someone good, it would of allowed us to play other formations better and be a lot more creative but hey wtf do i know

 

[ijjysmith]

I did give it a D at the time and why are you automatically asuming i'm going on about the defence, i haven't mentioned the defence once, so what are you basing your argument against me on that for, talk about using an imaginary opinion to argue against for christ' sake

I'm not arguing mate. I'm having a discussion.

I assumed the defence/keeper is what you meant. Apologies if not.

What did you base your D on?

 

[Mrk]

You stated you were losing faith in him after a relatively brief spell of not hitting last season's heights. That's fickle. 14 games in and still coming to terms with the midweek fixtures. If you add that to the bizarre team selections he's making it gets you the results and performances we've seen. So he needs to start playing players in their right positions and start making changes in-game earlier. The experience of juggling Europe and domestic competition we'll have to be patient with.

That's basically it though. All capable of being remedied easily enough. We all have concerns, but how this rough patch can shake belief in the manager I dont get it.

Is 4/5 months really a brief amount of time in football? If you think so, I'd respectfully have to disagree. If we had just hit a bad run of form in the past two or three games you would have a point, but this isn't a brief spell of poor form, we've been struggling with these issues all season and nothing appears to have been done about it.

I'm not saying there's an easy solution to our problems, but it is his job to find solutions and currently we look pretty hapless in the league because teams have sussed us out - last season Martinez could do no wrong in my eyes, but this season we've seen a lot of his faults and that's why I'm starting to lose a bit of faith - I don't think that is a particularly harsh or over the top reaction.

 

[davek]

Is 4/5 months really a brief amount of time in football? If you think so, I'd respectfully have to disagree. If we had just hit a bad run of form in the past two or three games you would have a point, but this isn't a brief spell of poor form, we've been struggling with these issues all season and nothing appears to have been done about it.

I'm not saying there's an easy solution to our problems, but it is his job to find solutions and currently we look pretty hapless in the league because teams have sussed us out - last season Martinez could do no wrong in my eyes, but this season we've seen a lot of his faults and that's why I'm starting to lose a bit of faith - I don't think that is a particularly harsh or over the top reaction.

You must have missed the Europa League games when we've played diligently away and been secure at home.

There's form there, it's just patchy.

The PL form is not good enough. Everyone knows, including him (regardless of what he says publicly) that we have to start moving it about a bit slicker. You can see him from the line gesticulating that he wants the passing tempo stepped up. But these players are finding it very difficult to give the intensity required Thursday-Sat/Sun. Yes, Spurs had high energy levels in the game they played us after their EL game, but they didn't have to travel. Everyone knows the thing about Europe leaving teams vulnerable. That's an established statistical fact. It's a mountain to climb next game getting the intensity of effort and focus right. It's why I've been banging on about dosing our effort in those EL games and coasting a bit more than we have in them.

Spurs and now Hull have done a job on us getting a pressing game thundering into us. It's up to Roberto now to figure that one out. And he will, given a fair wind on injured payers, because he's a very clever manager and he wont panic.

 

[teppic]

I gave it B- and got slaughtered. I doubt many would feel as strongly about that assessment now!

He left us wide open relying on two 30+ CBs. Players that age (esp Distin's age) can lose form VERY quickly. And he never even looked like sorting a No.10 out.

He needs to have a good January bringing in loan players or small fees for those he cant get on loan.

Is that because of the injury to Barkley you are saying that?

 

[davek]

Is that because of the injury to Barkley you are saying that?

No. That position was crucial to fill before Barkley was injured.

He basically bought a £28M rifle and forgot to buy the bullets.

Unless you want to play on the counter all season as we did in Germany, that's a criminal waste of talent like Lukaku.