Roberto Martinez discussion

[Stanley Parker]

1) I want a manager who can adapt and play either a positive or negative style as the occasion call's for and is able to read the game. It's really not that difficult to understand.

Funnily enough, fans do find it hard to understand.

Take the home derby last season. Martinez did not want to lose it, and five minutes from the end the score was still 0-0. Martinez then took off Besic and brought on Alcaraz, to the anger of the crowd who saw it as a defensive change.

In fact, Martinez had seen an opportunity. He switched to three at the back and released the two full backs, which quickly produced a goal scoring opportunity. Barkley passed diagonally to Coleman who brought a great save from Mignolet.

When Martinez explained his reasoning, was he given credit? Not at all! His critics then said that he should have made the change much sooner. Some fans just do not want to understand.

 

[BlueToff]

He isn't going to improve losing games every week though mate? And it can't be very enjoyable to be playing under these circumstances, especially when in all intents and purposes, Rom is more than delivering in his role. If the player loses or has lost faith in the manager then it will have a negative effect on the tactics if he appears then 'lazy' on the pitch.

Stones didn't go
A-because his vaulation wasn't met,
B-The board just refused to sell him on the basis that Martinez could take the team somewhere
C- The deal was wrapped up in the Yarmalenko deal

Either way Martinez had nothing to do with Stones staying, if Chelsea had offered what we wanted at the time then he would have been gone either way.

We don't lose games every week Ash.

We've lost nine games in all comps all season.

We threw it away on Saturday and it hurts - ironically enough Rom's penalty miss played a huge part in that...

The deal had nothing to do with the Yarmolenko deal either mate so you're talking nonsense there sorry. We went back in for Yarmolenko in Jan - we had the money in both windows - we just weren't willing to meet Kiev's valuation that changed from circa £15mil to above £20mil in the last week of the summer window...

Martinez had a lot to do with Stones staying. A lot.

 

[Verbal Kint]

When Prentice writes a piece comparing you to Mike Walker the tide is beginning to change.

 

[McBain]

Could you just imagine if he was Australian?

Could you imagine if you wasn't a dumdum

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

But what is it based on, this belief?

The PL is changing. Drastically. The only way we were going to stay with the pack was with a new investor. We've got that now. Now its a (more) level playing field.

He can now go out there and buy a top balls CB, a midfield general and a GK.

Judge him when he's had money to buy the finished articles. Not know when he's got a huge volume of untried, untested prospects.

My belief is based on results over nearly years. This isn't a short term problem, it's not like we've lost two match's after an excellent run. The results at Goodison have been consistently poor for far to long. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect us to beat the likes of Swansea and West Brom at home. I don't doubt his ability to find good players, just his ability to make them play at the level we need. What is this belief based on? Just the last two years.

 

[Groucho]

When Prentice writes a piece comparing you to Mike Walker the tide is beginning to change.

I did think this myself. Although he's better than Walker.

Every morning I turn in sky news praying the yellow banner at the bottom reads Everton Sack Martinez

Not his greatest fan at the moment but I'm not quite at this stage yet. Will I be soon? For me he's gonna have to win the FA Cup (not get to a semi, not a final defeat) or get EL at least to prevent me from getting there.

Otherwise are we treading water? Going backwards? Thing is, I'm not seeing evidence of us progressing. Sure we have good young players, but at what point do they have to realise their potential?

 

[hktoffee]

But what is it based on, this belief?

The PL is changing. Drastically. The only way we were going to stay with the pack was with a new investor. We've got that now. Now its a (more) level playing field.

He can now go out there and buy a top balls CB, a midfield general and a GK.

Judge him when he's had money to buy the finished articles. Not know when he's got a huge volume of untried, untested prospects.

It does not take much time and money for Spurs and Leicester to achieve something. Just saying.

Yes we have the new investor. The thing is I rather have a proven manager to use that chunk of new money. I can't give you a name it's the new boss call. Frankly, most of the signings of Martinez are good but it is now the second season that he has underachieved massively. It is down to his stubbornness in his tactics and I don't think he will ever change his ideology. It's not his players it's down to his view on the game.

 

[Ashtonian]

We don't lose games every week Ash.

We've lost nine games in all comps all season.

We threw it away on Saturday and it hurts - ironically enough Rom's penalty miss played a huge part in that...

The deal had nothing to do with the Yarmolenko deal either mate so you're talking nonsense there sorry. We went back in for Yarmolenko in Jan - we had the money in both windows - we just weren't willing to meet Kiev's valuation that changed from circa £15mil to above £20mil in the last week of the summer window...

Martinez had a lot to do with Stones staying. A lot.

It isn't just how many games we have lost though, 11 draws in the league, how many of them were needless? How many points dropped simply by the team not being good enough? Exactly the same as last year, so many points wasted that we shouldn't have, puts us in the exact situation again where as uch as some martinez supporters care not admit, we are literally on the same level as west brom / stoke / watford / palace these days. Are we better than that? Absolutely, except the one place where luck doesn't come into play is the league table mate, 38 games, you finish where you deserve to, and we seem to deserve mid table despite the 50 million pound players, record goal scorers and the pretty style of football.

And this part about missing the penalty contributed to us losing? Again this is what i can't comprehend, we were already 2 goals up. We were winning comfortably at that point, scoring of missing the penalty made zero difference to the result other than it would have been a draw instead of a defeat. Same as the city thing, ball over the line knocked us out, no it didn't. We were still in the competition when that was scored, it was the third that knocked us out. It is petty excuses for everything designed to deflect anything from the manager, simple as that.

 

[PITA]

Its true. The over reaction because you all want Martinez out is cringy if I'm honest!! If the sub was so bad, how come Goodison knowone booed it?

We've already been put on the naughty step for doing that.

 

[neil999]

3 big criticisms -

passing to slowly not breaking down teams, not dropping howard, game management

the first two have been solved, obvs dropping howard took too long and being able to score more goals may have actually come at the expense of conceding more goals lol

so can game management be improved? lets see over the next 8/9 games..

one game where game mangement was excellent was man city 1st leg, 2-1 up coleman went off, we kept possession really well and didnt go for broke, is this because there was less pressure on players as only first leg?

 

[Saint Domingo]

Funnily enough, fans do find it hard to understand.

Take the home derby last season. Martinez did not want to lose it, and five minutes from the end the score was still 0-0. Martinez then took off Besic and brought on Alcaraz, to the anger of the crowd who saw it as a defensive change.

In fact, Martinez had seen an opportunity. He switched to three at the back and released the two full backs, which quickly produced a goal scoring opportunity. Barkley passed diagonally to Coleman who brought a great save from Mignolet.

When Martinez explained his reasoning, was he given credit? Not at all! His critics then said that he should have made the change much sooner. Some fans just do not want to understand.

Why are you bringing this game up out of all of them as an example. For me one of the worst premier league Derby performances. I'd even rank it below the 4-0 mailing at Anfield, at least we had a go that night. The Goodison game was the first Derby for ages at Goodison in the second half of the season and it was under the lights. Liverpool were a poor side low on confidence and what did we do? Set our stall out for a 0-0 from the kick off. Three defensive midfielders, no natural wide player, we didn't move out of defensive mode and failed to land an attack of note until after the 90 minute mark. An absolutely cowardly gutless performance that honestly left me feeling worse than any time we've been battered by them. They were absolutely ripe for the taking yet we treated them like Barcelona. We practically did the same at the Anfield derby that season as well, just shutting up shop from the first minute again with three defensive mids.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

Funnily enough, fans do find it hard to understand.

Take the home derby last season. Martinez did not want to lose it, and five minutes from the end the score was still 0-0. Martinez then took off Besic and brought on Alcaraz, to the anger of the crowd who saw it as a defensive change.

In fact, Martinez had seen an opportunity. He switched to three at the back and released the two full backs, which quickly produced a goal scoring opportunity. Barkley passed diagonally to Coleman who brought a great save from Mignolet.

When Martinez explained his reasoning, was he given credit? Not at all! His critics then said that he should have made the change much sooner. Some fans just do not want to understand.

Funny you should mention that Derby as it's one of the few big calls Martinez has made in the last two seasons I think spot on. Sometimes fan's frustration can boil over and they become unreasonable, it's nothing new. You've pointed out one call that made perfect sense now try and justify any of the one's that the made no sense whatsoever, take your pick there's enough of them! I think most of us would like to believe our manager knows better then us but sometimes when decisions are made that NOBODY could fathom people are entitled to question them.

 

[Little Ralphy]

Did Stones leave mate?

No.

He could have easily kicked up a fuss when that request was turned down and refused to play but he didn't - after discussions with RM.

Lukaku has already stated his intent to be in the Prem next year.

He's an incredibly smart lad. He's going to be 23 by season's end.

He'll be focusing on the Euros first and foremost. If he has a good tournament, then there'll be offers but we will only sell if it's right.

Again, he isn't the type of player who is going to refuse to play either. He's young and wants to keep improving and he knows that he can only do that by being a first choice in the most competitive league in the world.

Stones didn't leave because Everton refused to sell him, not because Martinez persuaded Stones to change his mind. Make no mistake Stones wanted out, hence the tfr request.

Do you honestly think Lukaku wouldn't be first choice at any other Premiership club? I'd say only Aguero is a better striker than him in this league.

 

[The Mighty Quint]

When Prentice writes a piece comparing you to Mike Walker the tide is beginning to change.

Prentice ripped all that off Everton forums from the last 2 days, blatantly.

 

[AJC5]

The substitute at the time was fine.

Lennon was playing more as a second striker than wide left. Niasse is regarded as hard working so with Lennon tiring it wasn't a bad choice.

Also Niasse is fast which by playing him meant West Ham's defence couldn't step up ten yards and kettle us in. It also meant we had out ball options (he's strong and can make the ball stick in their final third) with him and Lukaku for a defence who were coping admirably but bound to have some late pressure.

As you can see it had valid reasons. It's only been blown up in hindsight due to the hysteria that you and many others are engaging in.

We got beat because we tired eventually with ten men, we didn't handle the crosses so late and because we imploded psychologically after the first goal went in.

Niasse or that sub wasn't the reason we lost so it just looks daft frothing over the chops at it. It wasn't bringing Hibbert on when losing 2-1 at home to Spurs with the clock going down.

None of the qualities you mention have been shown by Niasse so far. It was a crazy substitution. We might still have lost but that sub was awful. Final straw for me.