Roberto Martinez discussion

[BlueToff]

It isn't just how many games we have lost though, 11 draws in the league, how many of them were needless? How many points dropped simply by the team not being good enough? Exactly the same as last year, so many points wasted that we shouldn't have, puts us in the exact situation again where as uch as some martinez supporters care not admit, we are literally on the same level as west brom / stoke / watford / palace these days. Are we better than that? Absolutely, except the one place where luck doesn't come into play is the league table mate, 38 games, you finish where you deserve to, and we seem to deserve mid table despite the 50 million pound players, record goal scorers and the pretty style of football.

And this part about missing the penalty contributed to us losing? Again this is what i can't comprehend, we were already 2 goals up. We were winning comfortably at that point, scoring of missing the penalty made zero difference to the result other than it would have been a draw instead of a defeat. Same as the city thing, ball over the line knocked us out, no it didn't. We were still in the competition when that was scored, it was the third that knocked us out. It is petty excuses for everything designed to deflect anything from the manager, simple as that.

Yeh we've drawn way too many, I'm not saying we haven't. As good as Rom has been though he is also part of that. Think how many chances he's missed as well as put away that would have seen us pick up more points - Norwich and Swansea and Palace spring to mind?

The simple fact of the matter is mate we do not need to sell. We have no financial need whatsoever - and that position is made only stronger by the new investment.

If Rom really wants to stay in the Prem - which he has openly said he does - then there's not many clubs that he would realistic go to.

City - yes, but would Pep come for him/would he be first choice rather than Aguero? I doubt Pep is suddenly going to play 4-4-2...

Chelsea - potentially could go back there but would they take the hit and splash out £60mil after selling him for half of that?

Man United - I'd say this potentially seems the most likely but again they may well not be in the CL...

Liverpool - obviously not.

Spurs - doubtful even if they win the league. Again, Poch isn't going to completely change their system and Kane is their first choice.

Arsenal - I'd say Arsenal suit Rom and Rom suits them. They need a striker of his quality. However... will Wenger pay £60mil for one player...


I'm not saying we aren't underachieving mate but the fact remains is that those above are the only options that Rom would see as being better in the PL. He isn't going to go to West Ham or Sotton and they can't afford what we want.

That leaves the teams above plus the foreign boys - but again if he wants to stay in the Prem...

My point is, is that if his mind is made up to go then it doesn't matter what manager is here, really.

And yes mate the penalty did contribute, of course it did. To say it isn't a factor is ridiculous.

We should have held onto the lead and if not for RM's decision/inept defending from Jags and Mori we may well have done. However, that penalty goes in and even we don't throw it away from there mate... It kills the game.

I'm not blaming him as players miss chances but it's certainly a factor.

And again, the City thing... that goal completely turned the tide of the game. A huge moment like that completely swung against us and the players' heads dropped. I'm not defending RM, that's just a fact mate.

 

[The Mighty Quint]

Roberto Martinez could be sacked amid changes at Everton under new investor Farhad Moshiri unless results improve, according to reports in the US.


The Everton boss has endured a mixed third season in charge of the Toffees.

They are on course to finish in the bottom half of the Premier League for a second successive year - having previously gone eight years in the top 10.

And US broadcaster NBC claims time is running out for the boss.According to the report, a source at the club claims Martinez has lost the faith of a number of players in the dressing room.

Trust in his tactics is dwindling, especially among the younger players.

Everton have won just nine Premier League games all season and last week lost 3-2 to West Ham having been two goals up.

They face Chelsea on Saturday in the quarter-final of the FA Cup - a competition Martinez won when in charge of Wigan during their 2012/13 relegation season.

It is claimed that Moshiri, now a majority shareholder at Goodison Park, could pump millions into the club but that results must change to keep the Iranian businessman on Martinez's side.

 

[Stanley Parker]

Martinez has 80 wins, 74 draws and 102 defeats from his 256 matches in the prem with us and Wigan.
Tony Pulis has a better win ratio,and lets face it he is normally brought in when things arnt looking to good.
Baffles some think he is still good enough for Everton.

Baffled some people think Wigan a comparable situation.

 

[BlueToff]

It does not take much time and money for Spurs and Leicester to achieve something. Just saying.

Yes we have the new investor. The thing is I rather have a proven manager to use that chunk of new money. I can't give you a name it's the new boss call. Frankly, most of the signings of Martinez are good but it is now the second season that he has underachieved massively. It is down to his stubbornness in his tactics and I don't think he will ever change his ideology. It's not his players it's down to his view on the game.

Spurs have spent loads of money on that squad...

Not under Poch, but don't kid yourself that Spurs haven't spent more than us. They have. A lot of it was just done before Poch got there.

Lamela - £30mil
Eriksen - £12mil
Dembele - £15mil
Vertonghen - £12mil
Alderweireld - £10mil
Alli - £2mil
Dier - £4mil
Chadli - £10mil
Lloris - £10mil

The above adds up to near enough £100mil in the last 2 and a half seasons...

They also spent loads on the likes of Capoue, Paulinho and Soldado etc...

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

I do think it's a bit harsh to put Martinez and Mike Walker in the same category. Martinez has his many faults but Walker was just dogs##t. He he wasn't fit to manage a non-league side never mind a premiership team.

 

[BlueToff]

Stones didn't leave because Everton refused to sell him, not because Martinez persuaded Stones to change his mind. Make no mistake Stones wanted out, hence the tfr request.

Do you honestly think Lukaku wouldn't be first choice at any other Premiership club? I'd say only Aguero is a better striker than him in this league.

Everton refused to sell him because the manager (Martinez) said so...

Stones didn't kick up a fuss after it was turned down because RM convinced him he was right to stay and not go to Chelsea. Ultimately a decision proved right due to the state they were in under Mourinho...

Lukaku would be first choice at any club other than City.

Does it mean any club will pay us £60mil for him? No.

Wait and see.

I think he may well leave, but it's by far from certain.

 

[Deleted member 24970]

I know it's an unpopular thing to do, but I will continue to criticize them...the home support is terrible and not at all helpful.

The fact that it took a red card for them to get behind the team says it all.

Im willing to take a more lenient view on your post mate.
Yes the home fans this season and last season have been poor.
I have been one of them sitting there every other week in silence - I refuse to boo the players.
The real issue is that the football being played side to side with no penetration whilst our three exciting wingers Delboy, Lennon and Mirallas have sat on the bench most weeks, or substituted right away.
Teams visiting Goodison know that if they sit back and frustrate us then we will get edgy - therefore playing into the hands of the away team.
The fans wouldn't be this way if Bobby actually had some sort of tactical nouse about him in these games either from the beginning or with his substitutions. It Is hard to get excited when you start Cleverley on the left and Romelu on his own upfront, it is then made worse when the away team score a set piece and then bobbys only reaction is to take cleverly off and put Kone on the left or take one winger off for another - no change in the system.
I like many others going to Goodison are beaten before we get there, we almost know the team sheet before we have seen it:

Howard, Coleman, Jagielka, Mori, Baines, Mccarthy, barry, barkley, cleverly, Lennon and Romelu - almost every week.
1st step: Take Cleverly off for Kone.
2nd step: Lennon off for Delboy.
Isnt even a third step in most occasions.

Left on the bench are Mirallas Joel up until recent weeks, the fact Joel only came in for a Howard injury says it all really - we know what the norm was and would of been all season if not for the injury.
Honestly mate its beyond frustration now, its depressing. Like that relationship were you hope things will improve for the better yet you know the spark has gone - unfortunately for most our dream marriage with Roberto may just be taking a trip to the solicitors for initial instructions.

 

[Stanley Parker]

Roberto Martinez could be sacked amid changes at Everton under new investor Farhad Moshiri unless results improve, according to reports in the US.


The Everton boss has endured a mixed third season in charge of the Toffees.

They are on course to finish in the bottom half of the Premier League for a second successive year - having previously gone eight years in the top 10.

And US broadcaster NBC claims time is running out for the boss.According to the report, a source at the club claims Martinez has lost the faith of a number of players in the dressing room.

Trust in his tactics is dwindling, especially among the younger players.

Everton have won just nine Premier League games all season and last week lost 3-2 to West Ham having been two goals up.

They face Chelsea on Saturday in the quarter-final of the FA Cup - a competition Martinez won when in charge of Wigan during their 2012/13 relegation season.

It is claimed that Moshiri, now a majority shareholder at Goodison Park, could pump millions into the club but that results must change to keep the Iranian businessman on Martinez's side.

What source could a report in the US possibly have?

 

[The Mighty Quint]

What source could a report in the US possibly have?

Who's been dropped recently and is on his way out

 

[bluestevon]

But what is it based on, this belief?

The PL is changing. Drastically. The only way we were going to stay with the pack was with a new investor. We've got that now. Now its a (more) level playing field.

He can now go out there and buy a top balls CB, a midfield general and a GK.

Judge him when he's had money to buy the finished articles. Not know when he's got a huge volume of untried, untested prospects.

Mate he bought an argentinian International cb last summer, he already had an established England cb and he happens to have one of the most coveted cb's in world football - who plays exactly the style that Martines seeks from his defenders, exactly why you think that him having money to buy more would improve our defence?

Who exactly is he going to be buying thats better than what we have lol

Midifled general - errrm isn't that what he bought when he bought McCarthy - at leats everything he stated then and since he points out that the side is built around him

GK - looking at his track record of buying keepers, and how long he stuck with Howard - i am not exactly filled with confidence we are going to be getting the next neville southall anytime soon

 

[CahillsCornerFlag]

What are the chances that come this time next year we will be all having the same conversations again about him? To have them once is bad but to have them again is incredible!

Well we had them last year, nothing has changed, and evidence suggests nothing will change next year. It's tiring now, so it's going to be unbearable next season.

 

[BlueToff]

None of the qualities you mention have been shown by Niasse so far. It was a crazy substitution. We might still have lost but that sub was awful. Final straw for me.

How do you know he hasn't shown those qualities.

The two games he's played he's been on a total of 18 minutes - and in completely different situations.

I wasn't happy with the sub I've said that, but you're already writing off a player that's played a combined 34 minutes for us...

 

[mkrudden]

Mate he bought an argentinian International cb last summer, he already had an established England cb and he happens to have one of the most coveted cb's in world football - who plays exactly the style that Martines seeks from his defenders, exactly why you think that him having money to buy more would improve our defence?

Who exactly is he going to be buying thats better than what we have lol

Midifled general - errrm isn't that what he bought when he bought McCarthy - at leats everything he stated then and since he points out that the side is built around him

GK - looking at his track record of buying keepers, and how long he stuck with Howard - i am not exactly filled with confidence we are going to be getting the next neville southall anytime soon

With an open cheque book do you think we can bring in better than what we have? More experienced than what we have? Players who have won more and know what's it takes to continue winning?

Don't really know what to say to that mate.

Same applies to the midfielder.

Same applies to the GK.

 

[Little Ralphy]

Everton refused to sell him because the manager (Martinez) said so...

Stones didn't kick up a fuss after it was turned down because RM convinced him he was right to stay and not go to Chelsea. Ultimately a decision proved right due to the state they were in under Mourinho...

Lukaku would be first choice at any club other than City.

Does it mean any club will pay us £60mil for him? No.

Wait and see.

I think he may well leave, but it's by far from certain.

When did Martinez persuade him to stay? When Stones was upset and being consoled by his team mates? It was a club decision, if Stones had his way he'd have gone. You're giving Martinez undeserved credit.

Same for Lukaku, I don't know when his contract finishes, but he easily forces a move if he wants one, by telling the club he wont be signing an extension. Personally, I think the signs are there that he's one of the ones unhappy with RM.

We've already seen the tfr fees going up, a 29 year old Naismith going for near £9m. Sterling a teenage SWP going for £50m.

I really hope Lukaku stays because we'll never get anyone in better in the club's current state, but £60m honestly doesn't look to be that high a fee for a 23 year old proven goalscorer.

 

[Little Ralphy]

How do you know he hasn't shown those qualities.

The two games he's played he's been on a total of 18 minutes - and in completely different situations.

I wasn't happy with the sub I've said that, but you're already writing off a player that's played a combined 34 minutes for us...

I think the clue is in the words 'shown so far'.