Roberto Martinez discussion

[davek]

Got the majority of decisions right yesterday. Completely outsmarted Gnashers. But for some lousy passing between midfield and attack, and carrying the shocking Barry all game, we could and should have beaten them. The last 20 minutes of the first half and the last ten of the second was the way we should have played all game. Passing more purposefully and a belief we had the right to win that game.

 

[Christiffa25]

Got the majority of decisions right yesterday. Completely outsmarted Gnashers. But for some lousy passing between midfield and attack, and carrying the shocking Barry all game, we could and should have beaten them. The last 20 minutes of the first half and the last ten of the second was the way we should have played all game. Passing more purposefully and a belief we had the right to win that game.

Oh I don't know dave. If Moyes had been in charge you would of crucified him for that setup and performance.

If RM was going for damage control and purley wanted to nullify liverpool and get a point then he succeeded. The attacking side was disjointed and lacking any quality.

Barkley getting 6 mins typified the complete lack of ambition of winning the game. Basically No subs made apart from the standard Miralass Off after 60mins.

Hmm this from a manager who says we play our game first. Well at least we didn't lose!

 

[Seanjd]

Got the majority of decisions right yesterday. Completely outsmarted Gnashers. But for some lousy passing between midfield and attack, and carrying the shocking Barry all game, we could and should have beaten them. The last 20 minutes of the first half and the last ten of the second was the way we should have played all game. Passing more purposefully and a belief we had the right to win that game.

Genuinely, for me, a refreshing performance to see. We set ourselves up correctly against a team who would have punished us if we took a more attacking approach. It certainly proves to those saying that Martinez won't change his tactics that he will.

I wouldn't say he totally outsmarted Rodgers though, and we certainly didn't deserve to win. I was having flashbacks to last season when Seamy had his chance towards the end, but apart from that, there were not many attacks of note.

Similarly, I never felt they were a threat. I think it would be fair to say we turned up not to lose. Which is exactly what he had to do, as I argued it was what Tony Pulis had to do against us to begin to stabilise West Brom. I am not comparing our performance with theirs though, we did have some desire to attack. Occasionally.

 

[MartSlinger]

Only weeks ago people were fuming about the blokes unwillingness to change and adapt, now he's doing that people are still moaning? Sound.

 

[Christiffa25]

As you say good to see him use different approaches. Deserves credit for the way the defensive setup operated. The front 3 was all wrong tho. Lakaku LW really?

Naismith seems immune from being subbed. What's the point of kone if he is never used.

 

[davek]

Oh I don't know dave. If Moyes had been in charge you would of crucified him for that setup and performance.

If RM was going for damage control and purley wanted to nullify liverpool and get a point then he succeeded. The attacking side was disjointed and lacking any quality.

Barkley getting 6 mins typified the complete lack of ambition of winning the game. Basically No subs made apart from the standard Miralass Off after 60mins.

Hmm this from a manager who says we play our game first. Well at least we didn't lose!

He didn't set them up negatively, he set them up to soak up what Liverpool had and counter attack. The passing was woeful. He isnt to blame for that.

No, Martinez did exactly what most of us wanted him to do pre KO: deny Liverpool space in the final third and to build from there. We did it in patches but not enough.

The unbeaten run goes on and it's a case of job done. This style of solid, keep it tight and don't get beat performances were what a lot of Martinez's critics were crying out for a few weeks back. Well they've been getting them of late, so they need to belt up.

 

[Kurt.]

Yesterdays disgraceful display made royles dogs of war seem cavalier by comparison. The most soul destroying 90 mins of anti football imaginable. He doesn't have a clue what he's doing. Get rid asap.

Hi Kev.... Still being a massive Bellend I see.... Carry on lid

 

[davek]

Genuinely, for me, a refreshing performance to see. We set ourselves up correctly against a team who would have punished us if we took a more attacking approach. It certainly proves to those saying that Martinez won't change his tactics that he will.

I wouldn't say he totally outsmarted Rodgers though, and we certainly didn't deserve to win. I was having flashbacks to last season when Seamy had his chance towards the end, but apart from that, there were not many attacks of note.

Similarly, I never felt they were a threat. I think it would be fair to say we turned up not to lose. Which is exactly what he had to do, as I argued it was what Tony Pulis had to do against us to begin to stabilise West Brom. I am not comparing our performance with theirs though, we did have some desire to attack. Occasionally.

Yep, strategically it was a success. We'd have all have wanted a more cavalier performance, but we're in a rut and we need to keep morale high.

Better Derby day performances and results will come....we just needed to keep on track with this one.

I also think in all this Liverpool get off easily. They had a spell early second half where they played well. The rest was what I expected: a clueless outfit who are where they are in the league because they're not good enough to compete with the rest of the big spenders.

 

[Kiwi]

The end justified the means here. Not something I'm keen for us to repeat regularly or even irregularly though. If you look at the season in context, it wasn't a bad result.
It's all well and good to say 'well the manager has compromised his attacking principles', yet when things have been appalling at the back, no matter how good you are going forward, you can't pick up points and win football matches if you're conceding 2 or 3 goals a game.
Successful sides have a strong defensive foundation. We lost that foundation and our defensive shape. So the manager has taken steps to rectify that, prioritising defensive solidity over attacking intent so that we as a team can get ourselves back on track.
It is hard when the team loses confidence in themselves to turn it back around. But we have begun the process of this by reverting to two basic footballing principles. Working hard when we don't have the ball and keeping it solid at the back. When you have confidence in your ability to keep clean sheets, you can move back to working on the more complicated and intricate stuff going forward.

I'd have loved for us to go guns blazing head to toe with Liverpool. But they are a side in good form at the moment, and it was more pragmatic for us to keep it tight and try take them on the counter instead of risk getting torn apart, which would be detrimental to the confidence we are slowly rebuilding through this little revival we've had built on defensive stability.
To his credit Roberto has adapted his approach, and changed the priority to points over the moral victory of being the best team on the park.
We've regained our defensive shape and structure and have only conceded 1 in the last four league games.
Now the next step is to keep that defensive structure and keep it tight whilst adding to our attacking threat going forward.

We got a point against a team we have an atrocious record against, didn't really give them a sniff, and had the best chance of the game.
Nothing to be ashamed of, and certainly I would have taken it before the start.

End justifies the means.

 

[davek]

The end justified the means here. Not something I'm keen for us to repeat regularly or even irregularly though. If you look at the season in context, it wasn't a bad result.
It's all well and good to say 'well the manager has compromised his attacking principles', yet when things have been appalling at the back, no matter how good you are going forward, you can't pick up points and win football matches if you're conceding 2 or 3 goals a game.
Successful sides have a strong defensive foundation. We lost that foundation and our defensive shape. So the manager has taken steps to rectify that, prioritising defensive solidity over attacking intent so that we as a team can get ourselves back on track.
It is hard when the team loses confidence in themselves to turn it back around. But we have begun the process of this by reverting to two basic footballing principles. Working hard when we don't have the ball and keeping it solid at the back. When you have confidence in your ability to keep clean sheets, you can move back to working on the more complicated and intricate stuff going forward.

I'd have loved for us to go guns blazing head to toe with Liverpool. But they are a side in good form at the moment, and it was more pragmatic for us to keep it tight and try take them on the counter instead of risk getting torn apart, which would be detrimental to the confidence we are slowly rebuilding through this little revival we've had built on defensive stability.
To his credit Roberto has adapted his approach, and changed the priority to points over the moral victory of being the best team on the park.
We've regained our defensive shape and structure and have only conceded 1 in the last four league games.
Now the next step is to keep that defensive structure and keep it tight whilst adding to our attacking threat going forward.

We got a point against a team we have an atrocious record against, didn't really give them a sniff, and had the best chance of the game.
Nothing to be ashamed of, and certainly I would have taken it before the start.

End justifies the means.

I agree with all that, but I think one of the three in the middle had to be Barkley, especially so when it was obvious by HT that Barry was pretty much a liability rather than an addition in that trio. There was no reason to persist with Barry. Barkley came on and showed he had the spark of ingenuity to get past a pretty ordinary Liverpool midfield. He did it from deep in last season's Goodison Derby and he should have been on for longer yesterday to do it again.

The plan was put into practice and only failed to achieve all objectives because we were so woeful in that transition from midfield to attack.

 

[Harryflashman]

Only weeks ago people were fuming about the blokes unwillingness to change and adapt, now he's doing that people are still moaning? Sound.

Exactly .

People telling me repeatedly he's only got one way to play but the bloke has clearly changed it . before the game it seemed so many were negative and convinced we were going to get a hiding and then hammer us for being dull when we didn't .

 

[Prevenger17]

The Leicester game concerns me.

If they sit back the way Hull, Stoke and Baggies did how the heck are we going to break them down?

Aiden McGeady.

 

[Dario Terracotta]

The only real problem I had with him yesterday was bringing Alcaraz on at the death,changing your defensive set up that late in the game can be tantamount to football suicide.

 

[maccavennie]

Spot on.

I thought the team line up showed a crap team too much resoect but the penny shoukd have dropped fairly early that they were no bettor than us and were there for the taking.

A bit more belief and we coukd have won the game.

There's that magical word "belief". Something they are severely lacking in and we can include Martinez in that. We were set up not to get beat yesterday, instead of setting up to win. If it's at the pit I can understand it, but at home hmmmm not too sure about that.

 

[Toffeelover]

It was not a good game but a point is better than none but as I said before and DaveK also that the game was winnable. Never mind it is now in the past. I think I will reserve further judgement until after the next 4 games which could be tough, Chelsea, Leicester, Arsenal and Stoke. We will then be in a position to judge more effectively.