Roberto Martinez discussion

[catcherintherye]

We are not playing well, but Martinez is showing a capacity to adapt and change. For a manager with no plan B he executed an adept game plan against Liverpool yesterday which allowed us to get something from the game. People may not like us playing at home for a draw and that's fair enough, but what can't be doubted is that he has showed he is able to vary the way we play the game.

We haven't conceded in 3 games now. I think we can go on a bit of a run and finish in the top half and should prioritise the Europa league. He is also lowering the age of the first 11. It was around the 25-26 mark yesterday. With players like Oviedo, Garbutt, Robles Barkley and Stones coming to the fore. People shouldn't forget how significant and important that is for us. If Barkley has replaced Barry only Jagielka would have been older than 30 and he is early 30's. It's a small vision of what he is trying to build.

 

[maccavennie]

We are not playing well, but Martinez is showing a capacity to adapt and change. For a manager with no plan B he executed an adept game plan against Liverpool yesterday which allowed us to get something from the game. People may not like us playing at home for a draw and that's fair enough, but what can't be doubted is that he has showed he is able to vary the way we play the game.

We haven't conceded in 3 games now. I think we can go on a bit of a run and finish in the top half and should prioritise the Europa league. He is also lowering the age of the first 11. It was around the 25-26 mark yesterday. With players like Oviedo, Garbutt, Robles Barkley and Stones coming to the fore. People shouldn't forget how significant and important that is for us. If Barkley has replaced Barry only Jagielka would have been older than 30 and he is early 30's. It's a small vision of what he is trying to build.

In honour of your last line there -

Queen - One Vision (Official Video):

 

[Robocop]

The players won't stop performing, we can still achieve a top 7 finish and if europa league is now the priority well I would certainly be pleased with the second half of the season. So far I'm pleased with results after Hull away and if we can get 3 points on wednesday then what a result that will be! We just to be a little more lethal around the box and results will pile in. I'd happily say the defence is playing well, recent results have proven this, it's funny now that we always seem to have one good area and one bad haha.

 

[ijjysmith]

The players won't stop performing, We can still achieve a top 7 finish and if europa league is now the priority well I would certainly be pleased with the second half of the season. So far I'm pleased with results after Hull away and if we can get 3 points on wednesday then what a result that will be! We just to be a little more lethal around the box and results will pile in. I'd happily say the defence is playing well, recent results have proven this, it's funny now that we always seem to have one good area and one bad haha.

Be a struggle that mate. 10 points off 8th at the moment.

Would be ace though.

 

[squonk]

The players won't stop performing, we can still achieve a top 7 finish and if europa league is now the priority well I would certainly be pleased with the second half of the season. So far I'm pleased with results after Hull away and if we can get 3 points on wednesday then what a result that will be! We just to be a little more lethal around the box and results will pile in. I'd happily say the defence is playing well, recent results have proven this, it's funny now that we always seem to have one good area and one bad haha.

Chelsea will batter us if we play like that. They know how to open teams up. Better off trying to at least score in this one as a defeat against them would not be a surprise even if we were playing well. A defeat against the RS on the other hand would have been unbearable.

 

[marty mcfly]

It's a shame man

I'm just disappointed so many have resigned themselves to that. A win would have been massive. You saw the momentum that lot got off that game at the pit that carried them on to the end of the season (well, almost lol). These players haven't forgotten how to play football and I don't think that Liverpool are a good enough side to have taken the approach we did.

I mean, if we did lose, so what? We're not getting 4th. We're not getting relegated. A draw is no better than a loss really if we think we can still save some face in the league. There is no reason we shouldn't have went for it.

I can't be happy about Martinez addressing some problems (which seemed to coincide with the return of Stones anyway) when we're not playing winning football. Any team can shore up their defence by playing super defensive. But Martinez way of winning games is to play attacking football and just because there were some flaws with the way we were playing doesn't mean he has to rip up the system that thrilled us last year.

I agree and said the same thing before the game. I know the argument that we're slowly building confidence and a loss might have jeopardised it and who knows what another hammering would have done but it wouldn't have done too much long term damage and with the win at Palace I think we had earned a free hit and in a [Poor language removed] season a win against RS would have meant a lot.

That said - It was a draw and not a loss plus and even though I would have played Barkley and Lennon from the off I wouldn't have changed the tactics.

I fully expected them to try to dominate and for us to have loads of space to hit them on the counter but the truth is both teams played negatively that and even though we where at home they needed the win more than us and where full of confidence so it was really up to Rodgers to play differently. As disappointed as we are, RAWK is livid.

Trying to dominate them would have played right into their hands and the pace of Sterling, Coutinho and Ibe would have destroyed us. I'm glad Martinez didn't make it easy for Rodgers so he knows next time he will have to come at us and that will work in our favour.

 

[catcherintherye]

I agree and said the same thing before the game. I know the argument that we're slowly building confidence and a loss might have jeopardised it and who knows what another hammering would have done but it wouldn't have done too much long term damage and with the win at Palace I think we had earned a free hit and in a [Poor language removed] season a win against RS would have meant a lot.

That said - It was a draw and not a loss plus and even though I would have played Barkley and Lennon from the off I wouldn't have changed the tactics.

I fully expected them to try to dominate and for us to have loads of space to hit them on the counter but the truth is both teams played negatively that and even though we where at home they needed the win more than us and where full of confidence so it was really up to Rodgers to play differently. As disappointed as we are, RAWK is livid.

Trying to dominate them would have played right into their hands and the pace of Sterling, Coutinho and Ibe would have destroyed us. I'm glad Martinez didn't make it easy for Rodgers so he knows next time he will have to come at us and that will work in our favour.

I think this is a fair post. Had we have gone to play Liverpool on an open match there pace and confidence on the counter would have killed us.

Playing Lennon and Barkley was an option, but integral to our game plan was our 3 central midfielders. We could have played both of them as a front 3, but I'm not sure who I'd have dropped. I think he should have brought them on 10 minutes earlier (well Barkley) and seen Liverpool were out of ideas. The "false 9" position really seemed to suit Barkley as well and he caused Liverpool problems.

 

[marty mcfly]

Chelsea will batter us if we play like that. They know how to open teams up. Better off trying to at least score in this one as a defeat against them would not be a surprise even if we were playing well. A defeat against the RS on the other hand would have been unbearable.

Chelsea aren't playing well and will need to come at us. We will have far more opportunities on the break so while they probably will score we will have loads of chances too.

I for one am glad Martinez isn't foolishly trying to out gun top teams. It took Wenger a long time to learn that. However I would like us to get back to the way we played last season against the lesser sides.

 

[marty mcfly]

I think this is a fair post. Had we have gone to play Liverpool on an open match there pace and confidence on the counter would have killed us.

Playing Lennon and Barkley was an option, but integral to our game plan was our 3 central midfielders. We could have played both of them as a front 3, but I'm not sure who I'd have dropped. I think he should have brought them on 10 minutes earlier (well Barkley) and seen Liverpool were out of ideas. The "false 9" position really seemed to suit Barkley as well and he caused Liverpool problems.

I think Barkley played on the left when he came on and Rom went into the middle but it was hard to judge.

I would have played Barkley for Barry and Lennon for Naismith and simply went 4-3-3. Barkley is definitely better suited playing further back in a proper midfield and that's where he wants to play so he's going to have to learn to not shirk the physical side. I know he's coming back from injury and the leg break but he risks ruining is career due to playing with fear however it is Martinez' job to sort that out not ours as fans.

It's funny though if you way up all the pros and cons you can certainly understand what Martinez was thinking.

 

[detroiturk15]

Chelsea aren't playing well

Chelsea are in first place in the league. Sure, it's largely due to City that they're seven points clear but it was only a couple weeks ago they beat Swansea 5-0.

 

[mkrudden]

I think Barkley played on the left when he came on and Rom went into the middle but it was hard to judge.

I would have played Barkley for Barry and Lennon for Naismith and simply went 4-3-3. Barkley is definitely better suited playing further back in a proper midfield and that's where he wants to play so he's going to have to learn to not shirk the physical side. I know he's coming back from injury and the leg break but he risks ruining is career due to playing with fear however it is Martinez' job to sort that out not ours as fans.

It's funny though if you way up all the pros and cons you can certainly understand what Martinez was thinking.

On this point mate, why do you think that?

I know he did ok against QPR, but I don't see him being anywhere near ready for that level of responsibility.

For me his best position by far is behind Lukaku, but I hear more and more people mention playing him deeper and can't understand why.

 

[bigbear]

Jesus I can see why they take the piss with their winning without winning now after reading some of the posts on here.

 

[Del]

But Martinez only knows one way of playing and will never change

LOL

 

[catcherintherye]

I think Barkley played on the left when he came on and Rom went into the middle but it was hard to judge.

I would have played Barkley for Barry and Lennon for Naismith and simply went 4-3-3. Barkley is definitely better suited playing further back in a proper midfield and that's where he wants to play so he's going to have to learn to not shirk the physical side. I know he's coming back from injury and the leg break but he risks ruining is career due to playing with fear however it is Martinez' job to sort that out not ours as fans.

It's funny though if you way up all the pros and cons you can certainly understand what Martinez was thinking.

Yes he could have played Barkley in central midfield. That would have been a popular choice. I also think going forward that will work well against other teams. I can understand Martinez's thinking in this game though and agree with him. Liverpool were always going to try and get Coutinho and Gerrard "in between the lines" as two number tens. They also had Henderson bombing on in front of them. When you factor in Lucas in that area as well we would have always been a man down. Martinez picked 3 players to nullify their 4 and that required both more legs and defensive responsibility than Barkley would have offered.

Barry played well yesterday, and his positioning allowed for Besic and McCarthy to impose themselves. I thought we won the midfield battle yesterday and a big part of that was getting our 3 dirtiest players in there to stop Liverpool playing.

Personally I would have got Barkley and Alcaraz on 10 minutes earlier, probably for the same players.

 

[Toffeelover]

i have come to understand and realise what is the RM philosphy as has been demonstrated this season.

Possession at slug's pace with no penetration.