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Roberto Martinez discussion

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deipnosophist said:
Agree with Neiler wholeheartedly. Ok, some games have been tighter than I'd like and I agree that our throw ins are not all that (although they have improved massively of late...Leicester had no idea where we going to throw it today), but a combination of bad weather today coupled with second season syndrome suggests we are not doing too badly. If we can overhaul Stoke, I do not think many will be calling for Bobby's head.
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We're a team in development with a radical change in philosphey, we got the blend right last season Prob by an overall freshness. But the adjustment from Daveys deadpan conservative tactics I think have taken their toll and we are in a normal phase of adjustment. Age, injuries, extra games and change of philosphey has challenged our progress this season. We're seeing a passing of the gaurd, Barkley, Lukaku, Stones are being asked to be men, being offered the opportunity we all know they will live up to, there not there yet, but they need our support and patience.

As fans we need to look broader, as a club we need to continue to develop, we need to slowly phase out the old gaurd and supplement the world class talents those three young players are. It's the process we need to understand philosphey, opportunity, change and development. The players and manager need us to understand that, we're building something, something that could be brilliant, but it needs time and a step back presently. Everyone wants to go to heaven but no one wants to die.
 
Neiler said:
We're a team in development with a radical change in philosphey, we got the blend right last season Prob by an overall freshness. But the adjustment from Daveys deadpan conservative tactics I think have taken their toll and we are in a normal phase of adjustment. Age, injuries, extra games and change of philosphey has challenged our progress this season. We're seeing a passing of the gaurd, Barkley, Lukaku, Stones are being asked to be men, being offered the opportunity we all know they will live up to, there not there yet, but they need our support and patience.

As fans we need to look broader, as a club we need to continue to develop, we need to slowly phase out the old gaurd and supplement the world class talents those three young players are. It's the process we need to understand philosphey, opportunity, change and development. The players and manager need us to understand that, we're building something, something that could be brilliant, but it needs time and a step back presently. Everyone wants to go to heaven but no one wants to die.
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Problem is, the good ship Roberto could well fatally flounder on the rock called relegation, at which point all this about the bright future becomes irrelevant. You see, you are completely ignoring that the philosophy might be totally wrong and unworkable.
 
Neiler said:
We're a team in development with a radical change in philosphey, we got the blend right last season Prob by an overall freshness. But the adjustment from Daveys deadpan conservative tactics I think have taken their toll and we are in a normal phase of adjustment. Age, injuries, extra games and change of philosphey has challenged our progress this season. We're seeing a passing of the gaurd, Barkley, Lukaku, Stones are being asked to be men, being offered the opportunity we all know they will live up to, there not there yet, but they need our support and patience.

As fans we need to look broader, as a club we need to continue to develop, we need to slowly phase out the old gaurd and supplement the world class talents those three young players are. It's the process we need to understand philosphey, opportunity, change and development. The players and manager need us to understand that, we're building something, something that could be brilliant, but it needs time and a step back presently. Everyone wants to go to heaven but no one wants to die.
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You lost me st "philosophy".

I just want to see an exciting game of football.

I want "philosophy" I will read Sartre.

Saints preserve us from philosopher football managers :cheers:
 
mrb85 said:
Problem is, the good ship Roberto could well fatally flounder on the rock called relegation, at which point all this about the bright future becomes irrelevant. You see, you are completely ignoring that the philosophy might be totally wrong and unworkable.
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Great post :)
 

mrb85 said:
Problem is, the good ship Roberto could well fatally flounder on the rock called relegation, at which point all this about the bright future becomes irrelevant. You see, you are completely ignoring that the philosophy might be totally wrong and unworkable.
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You are also ignoring that the philosophy brought us our highest point total in the Premier League. Which even then didn't meet with your pleasure.

Injuries have played a huge role in the season. We've hardly been able to settle on a first eleven because of it. People really seem to overlook this. We all get frustrated with players playing out of position, but injuries have also played a part in that as well.
 
ilikecheese said:
You are also ignoring that the philosophy brought us our highest point total in the Premier League. Which even then didn't meet with your pleasure.

Injuries have played a huge role in the season. We've hardly been able to settle on a first eleven because of it. People really seem to overlook this. We all get frustrated with players playing out of position, but injuries have also played a part in that as well.
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Martinez seems content on hitting the self destruction button over actually dropping his bum boys. as a manager he has failed at every turn in the premier league this season.

Some have said he doesn't have the players to play his style. I think he dose he just doesn't play them. He will keep throwing his favourite players into the starting 11 regardless of form, desire and fitness.

Am actually starting to get worried to be honest. every week I turn a little more against martinez. I don't want to but when he insists on making the same mistakes with team selection, tactics and substitutions. what do I have left to do?

I feel like we could have messi, neuer, modric and jesus Christ him self and we would still be watching howard, Naismith and Barry stinking up the place every week.
 
johnnyW said:
Martinez seems content on hitting the self destruction button over actually dropping his bum boys. as a manager he has failed at every turn in the premier league this season.

Some have said he doesn't have the players to play his style. I think he dose he just doesn't play them. He will keep throwing his favourite players into the starting 11 regardless of form, desire and fitness.

Am actually starting to get worried to be honest. every week I turn a little more against martinez. I don't want to but when he insists on making the same mistakes with team selection, tactics and substitutions. what do I have left to do?

I feel like we could have messi, neuer, modric and jesus Christ him self and we would still be watching howard, Naismith and Barry stinking up the place every week.
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Did you happen to notice this week that Besic and McCarthy were not a good partnership v Leicester? The thing pretty much all of have wanted to see all season...but due to James' fitness problems hasn't happened. It didn't work...he changed it and brought on Gibson...who was boss and changed the game.

Naismith scored too if you didn't notice.
 
ilikecheese said:
Did you happen to notice this week that Besic and McCarthy were not a good partnership v Leicester? The thing pretty much all of have wanted to see all season...but due to James' fitness problems hasn't happened. It didn't work...he changed it and brought on Gibson...who was boss and changed the game.

Naismith scored too if you didn't notice.
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Yeah I also noticed that we conceded 2 goals about 10 minutes after he was taken off.

big whoop if naismith scored. do you want to tell me how many attacks where stopped because of his inability to pass or read the game? I honestly belive that one of the main reasons with Lukaku's form is naismith. He dosent help him he just takes away.

For once this season I thourgh the player that Martinez brought on where right. just the players he took off was wrong. If you take naismith off instead of besic I think we win that game, but no naismith has to stay on because martinez is just so in love with him.

worst thing to happen to our season was barkley getting injured and Naismith being allowed to establish himself in this team. He is, was and always will be nothing more then a impact player / rotational option. playing players that are no more then that as first teamers gets us where we are now in the leauge.
 
johnnyW said:
Yeah I also noticed that we conceded 2 goals about 10 minutes after he was taken off.

big whoop if naismith scored. do you want to tell me how many attacks where stopped because of his inability to pass or read the game? I honestly belive that one of the main reasons with Lukaku's form is naismith. He dosent help him he just takes away.

For once this season I thourgh the player that Martinez brought on where right. just the players he took off was wrong. If you take naismith off instead of besic I think we win that game, but no naismith has to stay on because martinez is just so in love with him.

worst thing to happen to our season was barkley getting injured and Naismith being allowed to establish himself in this team. He is, was and always will be nothing more then a impact player / rotational option. playing players that are no more then that as first teamers gets us where we are now in the leauge.
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So your agenda is Naismith no...Besic yes.

OK. Loud and clear. Even though they play completely different positions.

Gibbo made us better.

Now if you want to string this out farther an look at my posting history, I would have much rather seen Ross start in the Besic role versus Leicester...and McGeady or Atsu on the left wing. Big whoop Naismith scored...alright mate...the bigger 'whoop' would be Rom not slotting...chances upon chances. Which he'll convert more often than not.
 

ilikecheese said:
So your agenda is Naismith no...Besic yes.

OK. Loud and clear. Even though they play completely different positions.

Gibbo made us better.

Now if you want to string this out farther an look at my posting history, I would have much rather seen Ross start in the Besic role versus Leicester...and McGeady or Atsu on the left wing. Big whoop Naismith scored...alright mate...the bigger 'whoop' would be Rom not slotting...chances upon chances. Which he'll convert more often than not.
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agenda? This isn't x files mate we are talking about a game of football.

my point is you said naismith scored but by bringing off besic we weaken our defensive ability and conceded 2 for Naismith's 1. where as if we took naismith off and left besic on we would stay strong defensively and have gibson pushed a little higher up the pitch to play those balls into Lennon, atsu and Lukaku. We would look a much better and balanced side then and I think would go on to win that match.

but no martinez is sacrificing points left, right and centre because he likes to leave his favourites in the team. I do want howard, Barry and Naismith out of the team because howard and Barry have cost us so many goals this season, but naismith has stunted the growth and development of both barkley and Lukaku this season. I belive that has cost us more goals then the 6 he has scored.

do people even bother to read post on here? If I have a issue with a player in the team or the manager I try to explain it in my posts to the best of my ability to show that my opinion isn't unfounded.
 

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