Roberto Martinez discussion

[davek]

Galloway and Browning will be good cover for the right and left back slots also. What they will be missing in attack is evened out with defenders who can head the ball. Coleman and Baines are the best attacking fullbacks in the league IMO but they are rubbish in the air when defending. We have been weak dealing with crosses with Baines, Coleman, Howard and Jags not fantastic at dealing with them. Nice position to be in.

Agreed.

Overall, if we can add the CB @Joey66 describes above there, then we can boast a defence that'll be bristling with talent now and for years to come.

One of the big doubts when RM arrived was how we'd fair once Moyes' defence had to be broken up. Well we appear to be building very solid foundations for the next edition of that defence right now.

 

[Joey66]

Agreed.

Overall, if we can add the CB @Joey66 describes above there, then we can boast a defence that'll be bristling with talent now and for years to come.

One of the big doubts when RM arrived was how we'd fair once Moyes' defence had to be broken up. Well we appear to be building very solid foundations for the next edition of that defence right now.

Yes but while the yougsters are growing one class ball winner centre back would be nice before the transfer window ends in August alongside a playmaker!

 

[davek]

Yes but while the yougsters are growing one class ball winner centre back would be nice before the transfer window ends in August alongside a playmaker!

Yeah. On the playmaker: the Echo's Phil Kirkbride has just stated "It is a priority position for Roberto and he looks like he's taking his time to get it absolutely right. The manager said earlier in the week that Everton's remaining deals could go right to the wire but I'm sure he'd want to get a No10 in sooner, rather than later, so that he new signing had time to bed in."

I think we'll defo see movement there when they get back off tour. Hopefully that'll mean Naismith is on bench duty for the rest of the upcoming season.

 

[Ihaters]

Agreed.

Overall, if we can add the CB @Joey66 describes above there, then we can boast a defence that'll be bristling with talent now and for years to come.

One of the big doubts when RM arrived was how we'd fair once Moyes' defence had to be broken up. Well we appear to be building very solid foundations for the next edition of that defence right now.

It will be lucky to be as good as the Baines, Coleman, Stones, Jagielka setup he did so badly with last season to be fair.

 

[Ihaters]

Yeah. On the playmaker: the Echo's Phil Kirkbride has just stated "It is a priority position for Roberto and he looks like he's taking his time to get it absolutely right. The manager said earlier in the week that Everton's remaining deals could go right to the wire but I'm sure he'd want to get a No10 in sooner, rather than later, so that he new signing had time to bed in."

I think we'll defo see movement there when they get back off tour. Hopefully that'll mean Naismith is on bench duty for the rest of the upcoming season.

That's good to hear. That really could make a big difference.

 

[davek]

It will be lucky to be as good as the Baines, Coleman, Stones, Jagielka setup he did so badly with last season to be fair.

It's great on paper, yeah, but when form deserted them it was really a matter of make do and mend. At CB, we had only Alcarez to turn to, as Distin was a no go; FBs were in nightmarish form but had to be persevered with because no one else seemed capable of stepping up (the exception being Garbutt toward the season's end). Having, realistically, Galloway, Garbutt and Browning plus, in all likelihood, a new CB to turn to makes us stronger in defence than we've been for years. If Howard was replaced by a decent GK I'm not sure there'd be too many defensive units in the PL better than the clutch of players we can turn to now.

 

[Ihaters]

It's great on paper, yeah, but when form deserted them it was really a matter of make do and mend. At CB, we had only Alcarez to turn to, as Distin was a no go; FBs were in nightmarish form but had to be persevered with because no one else seemed capable of stepping up (the exception being Garbutt toward the season's end). Having, realistically, Galloway, Garbutt and Browning plus, in all likelihood, a new CB to turn to makes us stronger in defence than we've been for years. If Howard was replaced by a decent GK I'm not sure there'd be too many defensive units in the PL better than the clutch of players we can turn to now.

You sure? We have been pretty flippin strong in defence for a decade.

Why do we even have Alcaraz? why did their form fall so short last season? Why are we so easy to breach?

Martinez is the answer as he is the manager, the personnel we field, the results we get, the subs we have, the options in our squad, the players we buy and the position they play, and the style they play, and their mental readiness and their physical readiness is the responsibility of.....?

The simple fact is Martinez has broken our defence, and when he rebuilds, it needs to be with players that suit his requirements, you could have the 4 best defenders in the world, if they are told to do things that don't compliment their abilities though then they will quickly become very poor.

Martinez has not used his defence well, hopefully his style will fit more snugly with the next gen, until then he will have to make do with the unacceptable quality levels of Garbutt, Baines, Oviedo, Coleman, Jagielka and Stones and accept the best we can hope for from that group is that we do better than conceding 3 or more in a game... like we did against Chelsea..
.. Palace
Swansea
Southampton
Newcastle
.. and more

 

[davek]

You sure? We have been pretty flippin strong in defence for a decade.

Why do we even have Alcaraz? why did their form fall so short last season? Why are we so easy to breach?

Martinez is the answer as he is the manager, the personnel we field, the results we get, the subs we have, the options in our squad, the players we buy and the position they play, and the style they play, and their mental readiness and their physical readiness is the responsibility of.....?

The simple fact is Martinez has broken our defence, and when he rebuilds, it needs to be with players that suit his requirements, you could have the 4 best defenders in the world, if they are told to do things that don't compliment their abilities though then they will quickly become very poor.

Martinez has not used his defence well, hopefully his style will fit more snugly with the next gen, until then he will have to make do with the unacceptable quality levels of Garbutt, Baines, Oviedo, Coleman, Jagielka and Stones and accept the best we can hope for from that group is that we do better than conceding 3 or more in a game... like we did against Chelsea..
.. Palace
Swansea
Southampton
Newcastle
.. and more

The argument here falls down on the BETTER defensive form Martinez got out of Moyes' defence in the first season he was here. Last season was down to many personal balls ups (IIRC there was a table last season showing how many goals we shipped through poor individual errors) it wasn't a systemic problem. Even under Moyes we struggled with defending crosses, so that's nothing new either.

For me, It stands to reason that if you have a better pool of players to choose from - which we do now - then the prospects of keeping defenders focussed and cutting out individual errors are heightened.

 

[Furey1878]

It's great on paper, yeah, but when form deserted them it was really a matter of make do and mend. At CB, we had only Alcarez to turn to, as Distin was a no go; FBs were in nightmarish form but had to be persevered with because no one else seemed capable of stepping up (the exception being Garbutt toward the season's end). Having, realistically, Galloway, Garbutt and Browning plus, in all likelihood, a new CB to turn to makes us stronger in defence than we've been for years. If Howard was replaced by a decent GK I'm not sure there'd be too many defensive units in the PL better than the clutch of players we can turn to now.

Do you think they're capable back up at CB or we still need another CB this window? I think the latter, personally.

I'm also hoping Browning is preferred over Hibbert as RB cover this year as well.

 

[davek]

Do you think they're capable back up at CB or we still need another CB this window? I think the latter, personally.

I'm also hoping Browning is preferred over Hibbert as RB cover this year as well.

Defo need another in. Browning and Galloway are still learning. It looks from what has been said that CB will come quite late in the window though (playmaker first I reckon).

 

[Furey1878]

Defo need another in. Browning and Galloway are still learning. It looks from what has been said that CB will come quite late in the window though (playmaker first I reckon).

I want us to sign a playmaker first. But as it stands we only have 2 senior CBs, and we've managed without a playmaker for years so a CB is currently the more important target. That said, hypothetically if he we buy a foreign playmaker, possibly from another league, they'll need more time to bed in than say an experienced CB would. So in that regard it would make sense to focus on a playmaker first, and then a CB towards the end of the window.

 

[davek]

I want us to sign a playmaker first. But as it stands we only have 2 senior CBs, and we've managed without a playmaker for years so a CB is currently the more important target. That said, hypothetically if he we buy a foreign playmaker, possibly from another league, they'll need more time to bed in than say an experienced CB would. So in that regard it would make sense to focus on a playmaker first, and then a CB towards the end of the window.

Tbf to you, that's a pretty strong hypothesis mate. Martinez has said IIRC that not many of our domestic players can play this role to perfection. So I hope he's improved his European and South American scouting network!

 

[Tramps_mate]

I just dont think he cuts the mustard to be honest..

 

[dannyboy]

What do people mean by play maker? I really don't think our problems will be solved by shoving a number 10 in there and hoping for the best.

The massive flaw in the way we play is how isolated our number 10 becomes. Whoever it is finds themselves with two men marking them in the final third because our other two centre mids are stood in the centre circle waiting to pass it backwards and sideways.

 

[edge]

I just dont think he cuts the mustard to be honest..

With the start we have he could be in trouble by xmas .