Roberto Martinez discussion

[USABlue]

Even still it's a generation of players we've not seen here for many a year. We've not had this kind of opportunity at our club for over 20 years.

that's true we have a good squad but all the teams around us have improved drastically as well. That being said we should be competing for at least Europa and striving for cup wins.

 

[Titus Bramble]

Think we should sack him now tbh. No silverware in years and we bottle a final like that. Final straw imo.

 

[cjuk87]

This place is full of ITKs and IDQs

I'm actually a IKN.

I Know Nothing.

 

[Dozbik]

I'm actually a IKN.

I Know Nothing.

And I'm an IKNBIPAIID.

I Know Nothing But I Pretend As If I Did.

 

[DualityNSNO]

The water break is unnecessary, no one would suffer any heat injuries if the game were to carry on without water break. Like I say 25 degree Celsius is well within human limits. It's not as punishing as you imagine. Non of the international games held in that region needs any water break in between and not one heat injuries was reported as far as I know.

Have you ever played at 25-27C and 90%+ humidity?

 

[Little Ralphy]

We still have games left to up the tempo.


I have to say though that I wish we weren't playing a couple of no mark clubs in Scotland before facing Villareal. It should have been the other way around: quality opponents again in the next two matches then taper off in a knockabout match. I really dont see how we're going to be stretched up there. It's a ridiculous choice of opposition.

I agree about preseason opposition. The opponents are badly thought out. We should be mostly playing sides better than us first, so we have to work harder and then taper off with easier games.


The worry for me is that so many players look to be carrying too much weight. We saw it last year with Barkley, and he looks the same, Deulofeu is also overweight and even the likes of Jags etc. were blowing for tugs against Arsenal. By contrast, Arsenal who are playing in the same league as us, looked far fitter and fresher. You can argue their possession game is better and therefore the workrate lower, but the difference was huge in terms of fitness.


The playing style against Stoke and Arsenal has not changed either, we’re still trying to force the ball through the middle. Deulofeu provides a different option but he wont be a big success carrying that weight, he can’t sustain his pace. That Cameron for Stoke had him off all day.


Certain players are still playing a large part in the side, Kone, Naismith, Barry should not be anywhere near the side. Robles looked poor also.


Martinez has a lot of work to do and I fear this season is just going to be the same as the last, but without Europe to blame. If he doesn’t work on the fitness of the players then nothing will change and players like Coleman will look average, as it’s the engine that gives them the edge.

 

[deipnosophist]

I'm actually a IKN.

I Know Nothing.

 

[1966efc]

Wouldn't professional athletes, earning vast sums of money, make damn sure they were reaonably fit / lean without nanny having to tell them at the training ground?

 

[Kiwi]

The water break is unnecessary, no one would suffer any heat injuries if the game were to carry on without water break. Like I say 25 degree Celsius is well within human limits. It's not as punishing as you imagine. Non of the international games held in that region needs any water break in between and not one heat injuries was reported as far as I know.

Thought you were Adversus for a moment given the amount of tosh you just posted.

It's preseason. Players aren't fully fit nor completely acclimatised due to it being early preseason.
You've also completely failed to take into consideration the 90% humidity and the impact that has in increasing perspiration and hence requiring more hydration.
To avoid dehydration they added in water breaks, as they did during the world cup.

 

[Kiwi]

Wouldn't professional athletes, earning vast sums of money, make damn sure they were reasonably fit / lean without nanny having to tell them at the training ground?

The days have gone where reasonably fit is acceptable. These players have to be some of the fittest people on the planet and this is only achieved by elite training.

Players don't really have the time to put on the beef any more, they only had about a 3/4 week break on their jollies.

 

[davek]

I agree about preseason opposition. The opponents are badly thought out. We should be mostly playing sides better than us first, so we have to work harder and then taper off with easier games.


The worry for me is that so many players look to be carrying too much weight. We saw it last year with Barkley, and he looks the same, Deulofeu is also overweight and even the likes of Jags etc. were blowing for tugs against Arsenal. By contrast, Arsenal who are playing in the same league as us, looked far fitter and fresher. You can argue their possession game is better and therefore the workrate lower, but the difference was huge in terms of fitness.


The playing style against Stoke and Arsenal has not changed either, we’re still trying to force the ball through the middle. Deulofeu provides a different option but he wont be a big success carrying that weight, he can’t sustain his pace. That Cameron for Stoke had him off all day.


Certain players are still playing a large part in the side, Kone, Naismith, Barry should not be anywhere near the side. Robles looked poor also.


Martinez has a lot of work to do and I fear this season is just going to be the same as the last, but without Europe to blame. If he doesn’t work on the fitness of the players then nothing will change and players like Coleman will look average, as it’s the engine that gives them the edge.

I'm in two minds about the preseason so far. Swindon: they knocked off in perfunctory fashion a decent League One team. Stoke: I thought we handled their rough house tactics well, competed and looked the classier outfit and probably should have won in normal time. Arsenal: they looked disorganised, flat footed, tired and never looked like they thought they could get into the game.

We need to go now and put Dundee, Hearts and Leeds away in confident fashion, then have a good outing against Villareal.

More than anything though we need a few good additions to the squad to raise optimism. Regardless of what happens to Stones, that needs to be put one side and we need bodies in during the week to 10 days.

 

[1966efc]

The days have gone where reasonably fit is acceptable. These players have to be some of the fittest people on the planet and this is only achieved by elite training.

And the club can't issue guidance?

Players don't really have the time to put on the beef any more, they only had about a 3/4 week break on their jollies.

People on here saying they were noticeably overweight.

If I were a very high earner, I would make absolutely sure I were in a position to hit the ground running, whatever it took. Having said that, for too many of our players fitness is the least of their problems.

 

[Little Ralphy]

People on here saying they were noticeably overweight.

If I were a very high earner, I would make absolutely sure I were in a position to hit the ground running, whatever it took. Having said that, for too many of our players fitness is the least of their problems.

I wasn't saying Barkley had put the beef on since last season, he was over-weight then as well IMO. There seems to be far less emphasis on fitness for the players under Martinez and I believe that certain players are struggling to hit top form as a result. You only have to look at many games last season when we fell apart in the latter stages, or players made mistakes they wouldn't normally make (IMO) due to a lack of fitness.

It's all very well saying professional athletes should be in peak condition, but there is a reason clubs have fitness coaches etc. and players do fitness work in groups. Most people can only push themselves so far, and you need other people to push you those extra steps to achieve your peak fitness.

You can play football at any level of fitness, but if you want to maximize your ability then you need to be in peak condition.

I'd long lost respect for Moyes by the time he left, but one thing many managers like him realise that if you are trying to compete with club's who potentially have better players, then the least you can do is make sure you are fitter than they are. Work harder, more organised, and try and limit the effect that the difference in ability will have on the game. It's great being 2-0 up against Arsenal but not so great when you concede two late goals because your centre backs have their hands on their knees and are not fit enough to out jump a striker.

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

I'm in two minds about the preseason so far. Swindon: they knocked off in perfunctory fashion a decent League One team. Stoke: I thought we handled their rough house tactics well, competed and looked the classier outfit and probably should have won in normal time. Arsenal: they looked disorganised, flat footed, tired and never looked like they thought they could get into the game.

We need to go now and put Dundee, Hearts and Leeds away in confident fashion, then have a good outing against Villareal.

More than anything though we need a few good additions to the squad to raise optimism. Regardless of what happens to Stones, that needs to be put one side and we need bodies in during the week to 10 days.

You've got to remember the Asia Tournament thing was set up for Arsenal to win but that we got the most out of it pre-season wise.
Arsenal gave their reserve team a run out in the first game against the Singapore Pub XI, whereas we had Stoke. Both teams in our game knew they had to pretty much play the first team in order to compete and it was a very good work out intensity wise. This however meant that Arsenal could then bring in NINE of their first team for the final, whereas we pretty much had to start with as much of the first team that played only 3 days earlier as fitness would allow.
Of course Arsenal's rested first team is going to win again our still recovering mostly first team, it wasn't really a fair fight and it was never going to be. We did however get most of our players through a couple of high intensity games in high temperatures and crippling humidity. What we lost in morale by losing the final we made up for in extra fitness.
If we'd have used the reserves against the Singapore Pub XI and them played our first team against a mostly knackered Arsenal in the final we'd have beaten them.

We've played 3 games so far and won two, the third one being us starting with an obvious disadvantage (more than the usual) against a top four side. We SHOULD beat the rest of the Clubs we're facing pre season, but I'm not that bothered if we don't win all of them. What does matter is how we start the season. And I already think we've learnt the lessons of last year and are better placed to improve this time around.

 

[Little Ralphy]

I'm in two minds about the preseason so far. Swindon: they knocked off in perfunctory fashion a decent League One team. Stoke: I thought we handled their rough house tactics well, competed and looked the classier outfit and probably should have won in normal time. Arsenal: they looked disorganised, flat footed, tired and never looked like they thought they could get into the game.

We need to go now and put Dundee, Hearts and Leeds away in confident fashion, then have a good outing against Villareal.

More than anything though we need a few good additions to the squad to raise optimism. Regardless of what happens to Stones, that needs to be put one side and we need bodies in during the week to 10 days.

Even against Stoke though the signs were there. We struggled to break them down and many players looked off the pace. That Geoff Cameron looked like Usain Bolt sweeping up any attack or break away.

Arsenal was more of the same but against better opposition. I've yet to see evidence that we have any kind of change in the way we approach the game. We started off last season way off the pace and paid the price. This year with no World Cup there are no excuses. Martinez blamed last year's poor start for the poor season, saying we never recovered. I'd hoped after hearing this that he'd have a better plan in place and we'd really kick in to gear come the start. We still can obviously, we're about 3 weeks away, but so far there is very little evidence that anything has changed. And I don't just mean in the playing staff. We still seem to be approaching the games much the same way, and the players still don't look as fit as the opposition players.

Someone made a great point in one of these threads, the bold manager who walked through the doors 2 years ago has gone. He's slowly morphing in to Moyes but without the fitness levels or defensive stability.