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Roberto Martinez discussion

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SpurtingLesbian said:
You've got to remember the Asia Tournament thing was set up for Arsenal to win but that we got the most out of it pre-season wise.
Arsenal gave their reserve team a run out in the first game against the Singapore Pub XI, whereas we had Stoke. Both teams in our game knew they had to pretty much play the first team in order to compete and it was a very good work out intensity wise. This however meant that Arsenal could then bring in NINE of their first team for the final, whereas we pretty much had to start with as much of the first team that played only 3 days earlier as fitness would allow.
Of course Arsenal's rested first team is going to win again our still recovering mostly first team, it wasn't really a fair fight and it was never going to be. We did however get most of our players through a couple of high intensity games in high temperatures and crippling humidity. What we lost in morale by losing the final we made up for in extra fitness.
If we'd have used the reserves against the Singapore Pub XI and them played our first team against a mostly knackered Arsenal in the final we'd have beaten them.

We've played 3 games so far and won two, the third one being us starting with an obvious disadvantage (more than the usual) against a top four side. We SHOULD beat the rest of the Clubs we're facing pre season, but I'm not that bothered if we don't win all of them. What does matter is how we start the season. And I already think we've learnt the lessons of last year and are better placed to improve this time around.
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You make some decent points at the opposite end of the spectrum to me. I really hope you are right.
 
jinkyali said:
I thought we finished both games the stronger than the opposition to be fair.
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Arsenal had already won the game though and can easily take their foot off, in fairness 3-1 flattered us.

Although does anyone know why our goal before half time was not allowed? Didn't seem offside. Might have set the second half up differently.
 
SpurtingLesbian said:
You've got to remember the Asia Tournament thing was set up for Arsenal to win but that we got the most out of it pre-season wise.
Arsenal gave their reserve team a run out in the first game against the Singapore Pub XI, whereas we had Stoke. Both teams in our game knew they had to pretty much play the first team in order to compete and it was a very good work out intensity wise. This however meant that Arsenal could then bring in NINE of their first team for the final, whereas we pretty much had to start with as much of the first team that played only 3 days earlier as fitness would allow.
Of course Arsenal's rested first team is going to win again our still recovering mostly first team, it wasn't really a fair fight and it was never going to be. We did however get most of our players through a couple of high intensity games in high temperatures and crippling humidity. What we lost in morale by losing the final we made up for in extra fitness.
If we'd have used the reserves against the Singapore Pub XI and them played our first team against a mostly knackered Arsenal in the final we'd have beaten them.

We've played 3 games so far and won two, the third one being us starting with an obvious disadvantage (more than the usual) against a top four side. We SHOULD beat the rest of the Clubs we're facing pre season, but I'm not that bothered if we don't win all of them. What does matter is how we start the season. And I already think we've learnt the lessons of last year and are better placed to improve this time around.
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I think the preseason so far has gone ok. And I accept the reason's for the poor performance against Arsenal. The thing that disappointed me about that Arsenal performance though was the basics were missing: finding your own players with fairly straightforward passes; keeping a solid defensive line; forwards making the ball stick to allow for attacks to develop. It was a no show all over.

No harm done really. But given what happened last preseason some are right to be concerned when it looks a mess as it did on Saturday.
 
Little Ralphy said:
I wasn't saying Barkley had put the beef on since last season, he was over-weight then as well IMO. There seems to be far less emphasis on fitness for the players under Martinez and I believe that certain players are struggling to hit top form as a result. You only have to look at many games last season when we fell apart in the latter stages, or players made mistakes they wouldn't normally make (IMO) due to a lack of fitness.

It's all very well saying professional athletes should be in peak condition, but there is a reason clubs have fitness coaches etc. and players do fitness work in groups. Most people can only push themselves so far, and you need other people to push you those extra steps to achieve your peak fitness.

You can play football at any level of fitness, but if you want to maximize your ability then you need to be in peak condition.

I'd long lost respect for Moyes by the time he left, but one thing many managers like him realise that if you are trying to compete with club's who potentially have better players, then the least you can do is make sure you are fitter than they are. Work harder, more organised, and try and limit the effect that the difference in ability will have on the game. It's great being 2-0 up against Arsenal but not so great when you concede two late goals because your centre backs have their hands on their knees and are not fit enough to out jump a striker.
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Martinez seems to think he's managing a team full of David Silvas.
 

davek said:
I think the preseason so far has gone ok. And I accept the reason's for the poor performance against Arsenal. The thing that disappointed me about that Arsenal performance though was the basics were missing: finding your own players with fairly straightforward passes; keeping a solid defensive line; forwards making the ball stick to allow for attacks to develop. It was a no show all over.

No harm done really. But given what happened last preseason some are right to be concerned when it looks a mess as it did on Saturday.
Click to expand...
Even with the UEFA Cup you wouldn't be playing a game on the Thursday and then again on the Saturday, let alone towards the start of pre-season, in that heat and humidity. I think we just looked exhausted after the first 20mins or so. Exhaustion brought about the poor decisions and poor motor skills. The run out will have done wonders for their fitness though.
 
Little Ralphy said:
Even against Stoke though the signs were there. We struggled to break them down and many players looked off the pace. That Geoff Cameron looked like Usain Bolt sweeping up any attack or break away.

Arsenal was more of the same but against better opposition. I've yet to see evidence that we have any kind of change in the way we approach the game. We started off last season way off the pace and paid the price. This year with no World Cup there are no excuses. Martinez blamed last year's poor start for the poor season, saying we never recovered. I'd hoped after hearing this that he'd have a better plan in place and we'd really kick in to gear come the start. We still can obviously, we're about 3 weeks away, but so far there is very little evidence that anything has changed. And I don't just mean in the playing staff. We still seem to be approaching the games much the same way, and the players still don't look as fit as the opposition players.

Someone made a great point in one of these threads, the bold manager who walked through the doors 2 years ago has gone. He's slowly morphing in to Moyes but without the fitness levels or defensive stability.
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I didn't see the Stoke game like that. We looked easily the stronger outfit as the game progressed and, given that they beat us last season and finished above us, we reasserted our superiority over that lot in last week's game.

On the fitness stuff: I always thought the Austrian bootcamp worked out preseason. I can understand why it was dropped last summer with the world cup schedule, but I'm surprised that wasn't returned to this summer.

Overall though, I'm not concerned about them being fit for the start of the season, I think they will be. I'm concerned about adding to a squad I dont particularly think is good enough right now in key areas.
 
SpurtingLesbian said:
Even with the UEFA Cup you wouldn't be playing a game on the Thursday and then again on the Saturday, let alone towards the start of pre-season, in that heat and humidity. I think we just looked exhausted after the first 20mins or so. Exhaustion brought about the poor decisions and poor motor skills. The run out will have done wonders for their fitness though.
Click to expand...

That's why next season wont be the nightmare last season was. We just couldn't hack that schedule.
 
SpurtingLesbian said:
You've got to remember the Asia Tournament thing was set up for Arsenal to win but that we got the most out of it pre-season wise.
Arsenal gave their reserve team a run out in the first game against the Singapore Pub XI, whereas we had Stoke. Both teams in our game knew they had to pretty much play the first team in order to compete and it was a very good work out intensity wise. This however meant that Arsenal could then bring in NINE of their first team for the final, whereas we pretty much had to start with as much of the first team that played only 3 days earlier as fitness would allow.
Of course Arsenal's rested first team is going to win again our still recovering mostly first team, it wasn't really a fair fight and it was never going to be. We did however get most of our players through a couple of high intensity games in high temperatures and crippling humidity. What we lost in morale by losing the final we made up for in extra fitness.
If we'd have used the reserves against the Singapore Pub XI and them played our first team against a mostly knackered Arsenal in the final we'd have beaten them.

We've played 3 games so far and won two, the third one being us starting with an obvious disadvantage (more than the usual) against a top four side. We SHOULD beat the rest of the Clubs we're facing pre season, but I'm not that bothered if we don't win all of them. What does matter is how we start the season. And I already think we've learnt the lessons of last year and are better placed to improve this time around.
Click to expand...

I'd say that Coleman, McCarthy and Barry looked the most notably sluggish compared to their normal work-rate (okay, maybe there was no difference with Barry...) - which is usually quite high due to the intensity of their respective roles... so McCarthy and Barry especially contributed to the rather leisurely time of things that Arsenal had penetrating our midfield, and Coleman was off the boil in respect to marauding forwards like the wild boar he is.

This, alongside with our failed experimentation/Kone up front made us look rather toothless and worrying... but as you correctly point out it means f-all 'cos it's pre-season, and for the reasons above it was explicable and so there is less to worry about. I think seeing the players look tired now is different to last season when we didn't seem to have an effective enough pre-season to stretch our fitness levels.
 

This summer is going to make or break Martinez at Everton.

Some big decisions to make these next few weeks.
 
kithnou said:
The man thinks Kone and McGeady are in for a big season and can't wait to play them.
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