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Roberto Martinez discussion

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toffeejack said:
he said yesterday he was looking for a new striker. this is the first time kone's actually been fit to be able to make an actual judgement and that's what he's done by playing him so often during pre-season. just because people buy players willy nilly on football manager doesn't mean you can just do that in real life.

we're not a club who can afford two 30 goal a season strikers are we?
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Said the same. This is exactly why I am not overly upset in the Kone thing. He signed him for 5-6 million to be a BACKUP striker and someone familiar with his system. Alvarez was a free and someone familiar with his system - he let him go. This is the first offseason that Kone has not been hurt and it is very likely Martinez wanted to see if he could cut it. He got a full preseason and has shown he isn't going to do it.

If people are going to have a go at least use some logic. Maybe be upset the playmaker is not in though I think that is more the Board than Roberto TBH
 
bluemangroup said:
He can't do much without the requisite amount of money though can he? Deals are always cheaper near the death and we are a club with a number of problem areas and at least several deals to work on.
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Anyone who thinks Martinez, Moyes, or any manager in world football would prefer to bring signings in last minute is a tad silly.

Obviously it's due to the club's limited budget.
 
davek said:
Personnel wise - how can this be down to the manager? I'm sure if we went through his purchases we'd agree the majority have been good apart from the Kone and Alcarez fiascos. If he had cash to play with he'd have had bodies in by now. He's working to a budget - what that will be and when it will be spent will be determined by how generous Chelsea are and when they decide to put us all out of our misery on Stones.

Tactics - need changing to what? We are playing a nice brand of football that breaks down in the final third. It's not tactics that needs to change, it's personnel (see above).
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The million dollar question though Dave, is it's personnel not tactics that is the key why not go and get the personnel. We both know it's because we don't have the funds to do so. So the question is, objectively speaking if he is not going to be able to get the right personnel to make the system he wants to play successful do we need to adapt somewhat?

I have to say I disagree on the whole. I don't think it's the "systems" fault. Last season we played a variety of ways. Liverpool at home was like back to the Dogs of war era. I think Martinez's biggest weakness is his overconfidence. He is a very positive person but sometimes that can fly in the face if any realism. He is a bit of a dreamer. Starting this season thinking that Osman and Peinaar will be sufficient for number 10's as I know he does is the stuff of fantasy.

I hope he does well this season. I can see what he is trying to do. He is moulding a set of young players below the first team who will be ready in the future to take us to the next level. But he needs time to blood them. He also needs the breathing space of not having a baying crowd and the pressure of 6 pointer bottom half matches to blood them into.

What's most impressive is he is looking to bring through not just star players, but also solid squad men. I have little doubt he will achieve this if he's given time. The worry I have with Martinez is never his tactics or grand strategy, he is very erudite and intelligent but rather the short term nitty gritty that is needed to get to that grand vision.
 
davek said:
Sums it all up this.

He's trying to drag Everton back to its tradition of playing the ball and not treating it like a shot down the fairway. The ironic thing is that many/most of those that criticise his football are trying to tell him they want none of that and want something that crept into our play in the last decade and a half to murder our club's brand of football.

He's basically all that stands between us and a return to the agricultural stuff of Moyes/Smith that is anathema to Everton. He's saving us from ourselves, basically.
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What did you make of Royle's spell in charge mate? Or Kendall MK3?
 

Furey1878 said:
Anyone who thinks Martinez, Moyes, or any manager in world football would prefer to bring signings in last minute is a tad silly.

Obviously it's due to the club's limited budget.
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But it's also a bracket of time we've operated in pretty successfully over the last few years. In an ideal world we would be paying up front in time and get everyone we went in for, but we've not ever done that before and the new TV deal is seemingly not going to change that.
 
Yankfootball1 said:
Said the same. This is exactly why I am not overly upset in the Kone thing. He signed him for 5-6 million to be a BACKUP striker and someone familiar with his system. Alvarez was a free and someone familiar with his system - he let him go. This is the first offseason that Kone has not been hurt and it is very likely Martinez wanted to see if he could cut it. He got a full preseason and has shown he isn't going to do it.

If people are going to have a go at least use some logic. Maybe be upset the playmaker is not in though I think that is more the Board than Roberto TBH
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Agree with most of that, criticism of Alcaraz, Robles and even Mcgeady signing is s bit redundant seeing as they were all free. Kone as third choice striker in principle didn't really annoy me either. What did annoy me was that Martinez sold off Jelavic and Anichebe players who are both better than Kone for the same price as he got Kone in for. I don't get that, Jelavic would be perfect as a backup striker and would fit our system better than Kone does. Lukaku Jelavic Naismith is a far better line up than Lukaku Naismith Kone.
 
kithnou said:
He could have thought about it in 1995 and it wouldn't change the fact we are a few days away from the first game and with an injured Lukaku.
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Martinez has said Lukaku will be fit for the weekend.

And going into a season without completing your summer dealing is nothing unusual for any team in the league. The major movement happens in the last few days. He will have had strikers targeted throughout the summer, that doesn't mean he can go and buy everyone he wants on day one of the window.
 
Saint Domingo said:
Agree with most of that, criticism of Alcaraz, Robles and even Mcgeady signing is s bit redundant seeing as they were all free. Kone as third choice striker in principle didn't really annoy me either. What did annoy me was that Martinez sold off Jelavic and Anichebe players who are both better than Kone for the same price as he got Kone in for. I don't get that, Jelavic would be perfect as a backup striker and would fit our system better than Kone does. Lukaku Jelavic Naismith is a far better line up than Lukaku Naismith Kone.
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Lets be honest chebes and jelavic were [Poor language removed]. Better than Kone but still its like choosing which way to die, gun, knife, hanging, preferably none.

Was wise to take the money for them two when them type of offers came in
 

Saint Domingo said:
Agree with most of that, criticism of Alcaraz, Robles and even Mcgeady signing is s bit redundant seeing as they were all free. Kone as third choice striker in principle didn't really annoy me either. What did annoy me was that Martinez sold off Jelavic and Anichebe players who are both better than Kone for the same price as he got Kone in for. I don't get that, Jelavic would be perfect as a backup striker and would fit our system better than Kone does. Lukaku Jelavic Naismith is a far better line up than Lukaku Naismith Kone.
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Is that based on FIFA 15 mate?
 
Saint Domingo said:
Agree with most of that, criticism of Alcaraz, Robles and even Mcgeady signing is s bit redundant seeing as they were all free. Kone as third choice striker in principle didn't really annoy me either. What did annoy me was that Martinez sold off Jelavic and Anichebe players who are both better than Kone for the same price as he got Kone in for. I don't get that, Jelavic would be perfect as a backup striker and would fit our system better than Kone does. Lukaku Jelavic Naismith is a far better line up than Lukaku Naismith Kone.
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I think we paid a fee for Robles mate.

Both McGeady and Alcaraz would have had signing on fees too, but point taken.

Can't complain about the fees for Jelavic and Anichebe? Blinding piece of business from Martinez...

He'll bring a striker in.
 
sageyefc said:
Lets be honest chebes and jelavic were [Poor language removed]. Better than Kone but still its like choosing which way to die, gun, knife, hanging, preferably none.

Was wise to take the money for them two when them type of offers came in
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For one of them yes. But we sold Jelavic for 6 mill and bought a worse striker for 6 mill. I'd rather have kept him as he wasn't good enough for first choice but would be a lot more of a threat than Kone.
 

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