Roberto Martinez discussion

[Dithering Dougie]

Oh no mate. Not at all. That's not how I meant it, I'm sure you can appreciate.

If you looked at our first 8 game though, which one would you say is the one we should defo be winning?

To be honest knowing Everton it's probably the hardest game and we'll get beat or draw the easier ones, that's not just down to Martinez it's always been the way since I've supported them so it's to hard to say.

 

[catcherintherye]

I have said before on here in another thread and in my opinion it is still a truth....Martinez had a wake up call at a precise moment in his Everton career. That moment was the 6-2 defeat by Chelsea. We had scored twice against arguably the best team in the league..good 'football' goals as well, but we had shipped six goals at home. Everton up to that moment had been an attractive team to watch, and had been largely successful results wise. From that moment Martinez realised that we weren't Wigan, and that an entirely gung ho attitude would eventually lead to disaster. We started concentrating on 'defending' ...so nuch so that for a while the team seemed to be getting mixed messages in training, and this led to confusion on the field of play, which led to players holding on to the ball for long periods ...simply because they were afraid to lose possession. You've got to take chances in football, even if youre the best, but we were not prepared to take chances, we needed to 'make sure' about everything, and thus we became very easy to play against. I think Martinez realised this, and he has taken steps to overcome the problem. As the season goes on we will be more confident and consequently more successful. The catalyst may be a new signing in this window, it may even be Cleverley, or even Barkley if his potential is suddenly realised(encouraging signs against Watford, in patches). The complainers will always complain...its their right and there are probably deep sociological reasons why some people are never ever happy, all the anger in their life being directed at the easy targets of Martinez, Kenwright, Kone(!), refereees, etc. but I think top eight is a certainty for us and because the competition is the toughest for years just below the top three in the league, we could finish anywhere between 4th and 8th. This requires Arsenal, Chelsea ,one of the Manc clubs to have a poor season, but one of them is due a poor season. Won't be surprised to see another score draw in our next fixture, either !

A good post Steve. The Counter argument here though, is if Martinez learnt his lesson we didn't do much to rectify it during the following 37 games that season!

 

[Timak]

I'm not a great fan of Roberto but the problem any manager has at Everton will be they aren't competing on a level playing field.

Of the Premier League ever presents since 2003 (when the figures start) we've spent literally hundreds of millions (billions in the case of 4 clubs) less than the other teams.

Even Villa average £20m more spend a year (wages + fees) than us and the likes of Sunderland, West Ham and Newcastle are spending £10m a year more on average.

 

[catcherintherye]

I can see what Martinez is trying to do. He is trying to radically overhaul the squad, the way we play and bring through/buy in young players who are schooled in winning with a style.

His attention to detail with the young players has been very impressive. As is his willingness to give responsibility to the likes of Barkley/Stones/Lukaku who have huge roles in the team at a young age. If his methods come off, the current set of young players come through, Deulofeu/Garbutt/Browning develop into reliable pro's we are really in business.

The difficulty we have is the interim period. How do we prosper in the period between the above players becoming at their peak and the inconsistent performances they put in. My worry for Martinez personally is he won't compromise on that and it could be his downfall. If we get off to a poor start this season the pressure is going to be heaped on him and the young players and it will be harder to dig ourselves out of it.

People have moaned about us signing the likes of Jonny Evans or Scott Dann, but that bit of experience could prove invaluable this season.

 

[Khalekan]

Moyes' players are departing/losing form one by one. Martinez cannot rely on Pienaar and Osman like he did in his first season. We're also starting to see Howard drop off a cliff and maybe some cracks in Baines and Jagielka. You can't replace massive players like these with loans and precocious kids all the time. Martinez needs to start managing this squad better. The goalkeeping position is a joke. We have two senior centrebacks both with injury history, we loaned a left back out only to start the season with a kid playing there. We've bought countless central midfielders yet started the season with a 35 year old getting 90 mins. We're still playing midfielders or strikers on the wing, and we started with a blatantly unfit centre forward uptop because the options to replace him are unpalatable. This guy is supposed to be a premier league manager who's had almost 5 transfer windows to shape the squad yet his back 5 is all Moyes' and his first choice creative line up (Barkley, Pienaar, Mirallas, Osman) are all Moyes' too. Watford who have changed their entire lineup and manager looked a better unit than we did yet we're still getting excuses about how we're not over preseason and missing a few signings. He's not a new manager parachuted in, he's had ages to sort out any problem there is with team but he's generally done nothing with it apart from maybe increase the asset list buying up a host of starlets who look good on paper but offer nothing on the pitch, and allow Moyes' old players to rot. He needs to get his head out his backside and do some work because the squad is s joke at the moment and after two years in charge we shouldn't be hoping on a last minute deal to stop our season plunging towards the bottom half again.

Great post.

 

[Little Ralphy]

I have said before on here in another thread and in my opinion it is still a truth....Martinez had a wake up call at a precise moment in his Everton career. That moment was the 6-2 defeat by Chelsea. We had scored twice against arguably the best team in the league..good 'football' goals as well, but we had shipped six goals at home. Everton up to that moment had been an attractive team to watch, and had been largely successful results wise. From that moment Martinez realised that we weren't Wigan, and that an entirely gung ho attitude would eventually lead to disaster. We started concentrating on 'defending' ...so nuch so that for a while the team seemed to be getting mixed messages in training, and this led to confusion on the field of play, which led to players holding on to the ball for long periods ...simply because they were afraid to lose possession. You've got to take chances in football, even if youre the best, but we were not prepared to take chances, we needed to 'make sure' about everything, and thus we became very easy to play against. I think Martinez realised this, and he has taken steps to overcome the problem.

I was with you up to this point. What steps has he taken?

 

[Khalekan]

I have said before on here in another thread and in my opinion it is still a truth....Martinez had a wake up call at a precise moment in his Everton career. That moment was the 6-2 defeat by Chelsea. We had scored twice against arguably the best team in the league..good 'football' goals as well, but we had shipped six goals at home. Everton up to that moment had been an attractive team to watch, and had been largely successful results wise. From that moment Martinez realised that we weren't Wigan, and that an entirely gung ho attitude would eventually lead to disaster. We started concentrating on 'defending' ...so nuch so that for a while the team seemed to be getting mixed messages in training, and this led to confusion on the field of play, which led to players holding on to the ball for long periods ...simply because they were afraid to lose possession. You've got to take chances in football, even if youre the best, but we were not prepared to take chances, we needed to 'make sure' about everything, and thus we became very easy to play against. I think Martinez realised this, and he has taken steps to overcome the problem. As the season goes on we will be more confident and consequently more successful. The catalyst may be a new signing in this window, it may even be Cleverley, or even Barkley if his potential is suddenly realised(encouraging signs against Watford, in patches). The complainers will always complain...its their right and there are probably deep sociological reasons why some people are never ever happy, all the anger in their life being directed at the easy targets of Martinez, Kenwright, Kone(!), refereees, etc. but I think top eight is a certainty for us and because the competition is the toughest for years just below the top three in the league, we could finish anywhere between 4th and 8th. This requires Arsenal, Chelsea ,one of the Manc clubs to have a poor season, but one of them is due a poor season. Won't be surprised to see another score draw in our next fixture, either !

Many good points, Steve.

My worry about Barkley is to do with the dreadful state football had got itself into where a handful of mega rich clubs are just sitting there ready to stockpile young players no matter how much they have to pay for them.

And if Barkley does indeed "suddenly realise" his potential and have the massive season we all long for, we will spend all of next summer listening to pundits trying to bully us into selling him to Manchester

 

[Carlito]

You'd think that a team lining up with six out of ten outfield players being defensive-minded would be able to, you know, defend.

He's so much more negative than I thought.

 

[Heathcliff]

Many good points, Steve.

My worry about Barkley is to do with the dreadful state football had got itself into where a handful of mega rich clubs are just sitting there ready to stockpile young players no matter how much they have to pay for them.

And if Barkley does indeed "suddenly realise" his potential and have the massive season we all long for, we will spend all of next summer listening to pundits trying to bully us into selling him to Manchester

Twinkle toes that runs the club will be happy with that. He coughed up that it would take selling a Wayne Rooney every season for ten years or something similar to get the club free of debt. So lets see if the club makes mega bucks on Stones and Barkley and maybe even a tidy profit on Lukaku. Tie in the bumper TV deal that is worryingly close and lets see where we stand. It might be inviting the apocalypse but lets see how things go when the obstacle of the clubs millstone debt is removed and then what reasons excuses and blather-tripe come forth about more failed progress.

 

[Barkley1878]

Reason why I think the atmospheres bad right now is that the club stinks both on and off the field these days. In the past despite being awful and shambolic off the field and in the transfer window, the club always delivered on the field which saved Kenwright a few times imo.

Now we are awful off the field still but also boring and lifeless on it. Bad times ahead imo.

 

[Heathcliff]

Reason why I think the atmospheres bad right now is that the club stinks both on and off the field these days. In the past despite being awful and shambolic off the field and in the transfer window, the club always delivered on the field which saved Kenwright a few times imo.

Now we are awful off the field still but also boring and lifeless on it. Bad times ahead imo.

Come again

 

[By god I'm blue]

Come again

You're a cantelope!

 

[Little Ralphy]

Reason why I think the atmospheres bad right now is that the club stinks both on and off the field these days. In the past despite being awful and shambolic off the field and in the transfer window, the club always delivered on the field which saved Kenwright a few times imo.

Now we are awful off the field still but also boring and lifeless on it. Bad times ahead imo.

Probably for a different thread but I think Goodison is always at it's best when we're the underdog or something/someone winds up the crowd.

Even under Moyes we had got to the point where people go the game expecting to beat teams. It doesn't generate the same atmosphere and if things don't go our way from the off people start to complain.

The current style of football doesn't lend itself to a strong atmosphere at present either. The football may have been far more direct under Moyes and we had to work very hard to score goals, but because the game tended to be more end to end, people got excited when the ball went in the box or if we had a corner.

The way we are playing now, people just don't know when to get excited as daft as that sounds. You start to rise as the ball gets to the byline and the striker is in the box, but they turn and play it backwards. Same as we get to the edge of the box, and then it ends up back with Jags.
We play it around in our own half without really advancing a lot of the time and the fans get restless because you're expecting mistakes, and everyone wants to see the ball around their box. We get a corner and immediately everyone says it'll hit the first man. We don't really press the game either, so a lot of people end up with a negative vibe that comes through right around the ground.

The stick Barkley gets is a joke though, people on his back all the time expecting him to rifle it in the top corner every time he touches the ball.

 

[Brendan Janus]

Reason why I think the atmospheres bad right now is that the club stinks both on and off the field these days. In the past despite being awful and shambolic off the field and in the transfer window, the club always delivered on the field which saved Kenwright a few times imo.

Now we are awful off the field still but also boring and lifeless on it. Bad times ahead imo.

I am convinced he will take us down !!

 

[blue4eva77]

I am convinced he will take us down !!

I wouldn't go that far just yet but he is certainly stinking the place out.

Absolutely he is.