Roberto Martinez discussion

[mythbuster]

'kinell are the knives out again?

We were alright yesterday, a mistake cost us that vital first goal and in the end the difference in quality of the 2 sides showed.

It didn't help that we've had to resort to 2 young CBs playing left-back when we like to get our fullbacks in attacking positions.

The knives are only out on the internet mate. The crowd were great yesterday and the team were applauded off.

 

[sageyefc]

Apart from the first half against Watford where he said himself we were sill in preseason mode and second half against city were we were well beaten by the best team in the league, we've been quite good so far, 10x better than last year, add in a decent signing like yarmo and we'll be in or around top 5-6

 

[sageyefc]

The knives are only out on the internet mate. The crowd were great yesterday and the team were applauded off.

Crowd were much better yesterday, need them pulling together with the players, it's when we're at our best

 

[mythbuster]

Crowd were much better yesterday, need them pulling together with the players, it's when we're at our best

It's one thing I've noticed over the last few years at Goodison. When we're second favourites, the crowd are always up for it. However, when lesser lights turn up, a lot of fans get edgy if we're not battering them after ten minutes.

 

[blue4eva77]

Yes, you're correct, Sterling isn't the reason; this is....

I don't particularly remember Aguero and Toure being 'on it' yesterday. Two players stick out in my mind, Silva and Navas. Our left side was like a turnstile yesterday and Silva ran us absolutely ragged. I would love to know what the real game plan was yesterday for trying to contain him.

The thing that gets me was that it was evidently clear in the opening 15 minutes that Silva had a license to drift where ever he wanted and do his own thing. A player that is world class simply cannot be allowed this kind of freedom and we never even tried to counter their tactics once.

We got away with getting in at half time at 0 - 0 and should of made changes then and switched to plan B. A man marker on Silva and wingers on to stretch them out wide to hit them on the counter. Even at 1 - 0 down it was obvious that we needed to change it and mix it up and so the substitutions literally made no sense at all, as it was like for like. Very strange and baffling.

 

[Carlito]

I'm going to have to insist that he buy a new goalkeeper.

 

[Yankfootball1]

I thought second half yesterday we were overpowered but I think Martinez stuck with the same system. In his first season he would have risked putting on at least 1 out and out wide man or 2 up top to chase the fame. Instead he brought on naismith and put him out wide. We were behind at home. Have a go.

Not saying a agree Naismith should have been brought on. I would have preferred a Mirallas or GD. But certainly not both as some are calling for. I am wondering if the battering we took by Chelsea last year greatly influenced his tactics yesterday. We were very open against Chelsea and got pummeled. I also think that 6 goals carried over from a confidence perspective. He may have applied lessons learned and wanted to keep things tight to prevent a reoccurrence especially with a 19 year old at left back followed by a natural RB/CB playing out of position against what is certainly at the moment the best team in the league.

In fairness to Martinez we did almost nick a goal at 1-0 with Naismith on the field off of two corners where Hart flapped at balls. I thought for the most part we played well yesterday bar McCarthy's passing being off. While I am not about moral victories I certainly am not going to look at yesterday and say that it was RM's fault. That goal was the result of a bad giveaway by McCarthy and Howard not covering the near post and nothing to do with Tactics. Howard's got to stop getting beat nearpost especially from that tight an angle. The second goal both McCarthy and Browning switched off neither tracking Nasri's run.

 

[Little Ralphy]

I don't particularly remember Aguero and Toure being 'on it' yesterday. Two players stick out in my mind, Silva and Navas. Our left side was like a turnstile yesterday and Silva ran us absolutely ragged. I would love to know what the real game plan was yesterday for trying to contain him.


The thing that gets me was that it was evidently clear in the opening 15 minutes that Silva had a license to drift where ever he wanted and do his own thing. A player that is world class simply cannot be allowed this kind of freedom and we never even tried to counter their tactics once.


We got away with getting in at half time at 0 - 0 and should of made changes then and switched to plan B. A man marker on Silva and wingers on to stretch them out wide to hit them on the counter. Even at 1 - 0 down it was obvious that we needed to change it and mix it up and so the substitutions literally made no sense at all, as it was like for like. Very strange and baffling.

Agree with most of that. I can only think he had the players trying to cover any pass that Silva was going to make. As Silva himself seemed to have the run of the pitch.


You can say got away with 0-0 but we also had a few chances ourselves in the first half. I agree though a plan B for the second half was needed as City changed their system a little and suddenly we couldn’t get out of our own half. It was just attack vs defence. I’d have liked to have seen Besic come on for Barry and do a number on Silva and McCarthy play a more disciplined holding role maybe.


Naismith for Kone wasn’t the greatest tactical change for that game, and Deulofeu looked like he’d turned up still bladdered from the night before.


After 3 games I think there are a few positives from last season at least.


Set Pieces – we’ve defo worked on them, and they look far better than last season so far, and on another day we may have scored a free kick of from a corner against City.

Fitness – the players look a lot fitter than they did last season

Pace – the overall pace of the game seems better, perhaps related to the above point.

Individuals – Barkley looks brighter, Cleverley looks decent and Lukaku looks more dangerous. Jags and Stones are looking up for it.

I also like the fact that Galloway and Browning are being given a chance.


There are still a few negatives though

System – it’s still square pegs and round holes. Having a young centre back pushing right up the left hand side as a full back against a pacey winger is asking for trouble. We are also massively open for anyone to counter.

Centre midfield - for a club full of central midfielders, we are massively open in that area. Teams just walk through us. Whether it’s the system and the players are being asked to cover too much ground and incapable of it, or the players just not performing, there is a problem in that area of the pitch. Neither Barry nor McCarthy offer anything productive on the ball and they don’t really offer much defensive cover either. I’d have liked to have seen Besic replace Barry and Cleverly replace McCarthy in those roles when it turned sour in the second half. Just to give us a bit more movement to stop them powering through, and hopefully give us a platform to break from.

No real pressing game – if you play against better players, you really need to cut out their space and the time they have on the ball otherwise they’ll punish you. It feels like we only ever get the ball back after the opposition have taken a shot.

Some players just seem to always play regardless of performance.

 

[Goat]

The knives are only out on the internet mate. The crowd were great yesterday and the team were applauded off.

That was nice, I was a bit worried that the boos would ring out, which would have been a shame, I thought the manager made some tactical errors, but overall most of the players put in a real shift and THEY didnt deserve the result we got.

I clap the players off every game, win, lose or draw, it was just nice that everybody else followed for once.

 

[Alex Hindmarsh]

Quite easy to understand if your not being puposely pedantic.

1. Koeman is a good manager who's proven he can do well in the league.

2. Should Southampton have a poor season the manager would be more willing to leave to join us especially considering he's had to put up with the board sell all their best players for the last 2 seasons running hence their decline rather than his tactics.

3. If we flop again this season it's clear Martinez isn't the right man for the job considering the quality in our squad and we should look elsewhere.

4. Koeman plays 2 wingers and plays a pacey and fluid passing system- something we enjoyed under martinez before he began arsing around with 1 and now 0 winger systems.

I'm not being pednatic. I'm stating a fact mate.

You want a manager whos had one decent season, and is struggling in his second? Well that's exactly what we have already. Give the guy we have in charge (who has way more english experience than Koeman) some actual time to see how he goes rather than draft in a manager who has no features that Martinez doesn't.

Two wingers? He played Tadic out wide against us so that aint true. IF Martinez flops is the key point? Why not just wait and see before looking at inadequate replacements? And Martinez put him to the sword last week so I really dont get this.

 

[ianefc]

Chelsea, City, Arsenal and Utd will all add players to their squad, yet you're saying we don't need to because Dave admires what Roberto did in his first season.... LOL.

Behave. I'm not saying we shouldn't add. I'm saying the squad is still good enough to compete for top 8

 

[WarringtonBlue]

This thread?

I was at the game. We played with our at an estimate 5th choice CB at LB, and lost to two moments of magic, nasri's goal being a good a goal scored against is as I've seen. We hit the bar had another off the line and another disallowed when it should have stood. Yes they could have scored more but the performance was night and day to last season

 

[mythbuster]

Behave. I'm not saying we shouldn't add. I'm saying the squad is still good enough to compete for top 8

That's the point I'm making. Just because we did well a couple of seasons back, means nothing. Without strengthening, we'll at best stagnate. Chelski won the league last season, yet they HAD (some may say still need) to add players

 

[ianefc]

That's the point I'm making. Just because we did well a couple of seasons back, means nothing. Without strengthening, we'll at best stagnate. Chelski won the league last season, yet they HAD (some may say still need) to add players

So we sort of agree. I merely pointing out a man with no targets in my view can't really be appraised, I was wondering what people think is par for the squad as things stand? For me we can still aim for top 8 as things stand. I despise our board, but even with no signings, Martinez needs to have an expectancy on him, not a pre made list of excuses.

 

[mythbuster]

So we sort of agree. I merely pointing out a man with no targets in my view can't really be appraised, I was wondering what people think is par for the squad as things stand? For me we can still aim for top 8 as things stand. I despise our board, but even with no signings, Martinez needs to have an expectancy on him, not a pre made list of excuses.

I think we'll easily finish in the top half. We need to be challenging Spurs, Liverpool etc for the European places though. I think we need at least 2/3 good additions for that though.