Roberto Martinez discussion

[KevMirallas]

He clearly has a plan. This window has been the biggest test for it, but he's holding strong. I don't know exactly what the ceiling on that plan is, but he seems to think he can build a title-winning squad without spending an inordinate amount. Regardless of whether I agree with that or not, I'm incredibly assured to see he has a goal and a way to achieve it.

I really do think we can achieve great things with him and with the young group of players we have now.

 

[Jags..class]

I wasn't specifically talking about transfers, more the personal relationship Kenwright and Martinez have. I sense BK, after the tumult of losing Moyes who was his wingman, now feels comfortable with Martinez in the same way. Roberto has stepped up the past few weeks and fronted the organisation for Kenwright: shielding him from criticism and giving praise to him at the appropriate moment.

Kenwright prizes that highly in a manager. He needs that shield. Moyes provided it, Martinez has truly begun to fill the void Moyes left this summer.

But he also got to earn the manager respect and he done this and backing his manger, not many chairman would turn down 35 million

 

[hetion]

I had the discussion with my brother yesterday, who is essentially a fence sitter on the question.

What I put to him was, do you think Barkley, Stones, Oviedo, Naismith, Browning, Pennington, Garbutt, Galloway etc have all come on under Martinez? For all his other faults he looks able to improve players to me, which is essential.

Given we have so many players under 22/23 if he can continue that process we are only going to improve. First and foremost he is a good coach, who improves players over time. This isn't always a linear process though.

I remember when he first came, when asked about Barkley, he said he didn't mind him making a mistake, as long as he learnt from the mistake, and if it was a mistake trying to do the right thing, he didn't stop looking for the ball. That is a microcosm of the strengths and weaknesses of Martinez.

He gives young players opportunities, and doesn't go for quick and easy solutions if they make mistakes, he allows them to play through it and work it out for themselves. This will see them come out the other end stronger, but in the interim period there may be some mistakes to rectify.

That was last season for me. A massive decline that we needed to learn from and improve upon. But a decline that saw Stones and Barkley cement places as 20 year olds, a 20 year old striker lead the line and players such as Galloway and Garbutt make their way into the team.

To accommodate that experienced pro's were shunted. With young players comes inconsistency. But I always harp back to the two things. 1) Has Martinez improved those players. and 2) Given the amount of good quality young players we have, how much further can they go?

In my more positive moments this is how I think. And I like it a lot because it's the perfect fit with Everton - not least because the club will actually stick with him through those tough but necessary times rather than panic and fire him like almost every other prem club would do.

 

[marty mcfly]

I wasn't specifically talking about transfers, more the personal relationship Kenwright and Martinez have. I sense BK, after the tumult of losing Moyes who was his wingman, now feels comfortable with Martinez in the same way. Roberto has stepped up the past few weeks and fronted the organisation for Kenwright: shielding him from criticism and giving praise to him at the appropriate moment.

Kenwright prizes that highly in a manager. He needs that shield. Moyes provided it, Martinez has truly begun to fill the void left by Moyes this summer.

Honestly I think Martinez is in charge of transfers and everything else when it comes to football matters. It's as simple as that. I sort of doubted that view with Stones because it was beginning to look all too familiar but the fact that Kenwright backed him made me realize that I was right all along and it was never the board that sold but rather Moyes.

Now the budget that the manager gets that's a completely different question. It will be interesting to see in the future if Martinez isn't going to sell players to generate his transfer funds whether Kenwright will still back him because that will put pressure on the board to release funds which they don't have.

Fair play to Martinez though. It's a risky strategy and he needs all the support from us fans for it to work.

 

[marty mcfly]

Isn't it funny though how a manager's personality is reflected in both his transfer dealings and the way he sets his teams out. Martinez is a risky taker and Moyes is a steady Eddie.

 

[keverton]

I wasn't specifically talking about transfers, more the personal relationship Kenwright and Martinez have. I sense BK, after the tumult of losing Moyes who was his wingman, now feels comfortable with Martinez in the same way. Roberto has stepped up the past few weeks and fronted the organisation for Kenwright: shielding him from criticism and giving praise to him at the appropriate moment.

Kenwright prizes that highly in a manager. He needs that shield. Moyes provided it, Martinez has truly begun to fill the void left by Moyes this summer.

So you now know Martinez will protect and praise Kenwright. This was one of your biggest gripes with moyes that he protected and praised this bored. I also remember you saying you would not support Martinez if he followed the same script. He is. So where do you stand now on Martinez given his staunch backing of Bill. So either bill is a great chairman which moyes and Martinez tell everyone or they (Martinez) are part of the problem as he will continue to protect bill as moyes did.

 

[Khalekan]

I wasn't specifically talking about transfers, more the personal relationship Kenwright and Martinez have. I sense BK, after the tumult of losing Moyes who was his wingman, now feels comfortable with Martinez in the same way. Roberto has stepped up the past few weeks and fronted the organisation for Kenwright: shielding him from criticism and giving praise to him at the appropriate moment.

Kenwright prizes that highly in a manager. He needs that shield. Moyes provided it, Martinez has truly begun to fill the void left by Moyes this summer.

Do you think that is a good thing, Dave?

 

[Bobbys Shoe Polish]

I wasn't specifically talking about transfers, more the personal relationship Kenwright and Martinez have. I sense BK, after the tumult of losing Moyes who was his wingman, now feels comfortable with Martinez in the same way. Roberto has stepped up the past few weeks and fronted the organisation for Kenwright: shielding him from criticism and giving praise to him at the appropriate moment.

Kenwright prizes that highly in a manager. He needs that shield. Moyes provided it, Martinez has truly begun to fill the void left by Moyes this summer.

You're bonkers mate. What a load of nonsense

 

[Little Ralphy]

Why are people surprised that the Manager has a good working relationship with the Chairman? You have to have that for things to work.

Moyes used to say himself that the club were giving him every penny that was available for his budget (this includes wages, tfrs etc.)

Kenwright may not be a great Chairman from a fans (or even a business) perspective because of failed business ventures and lack of investment, funds etc. but from a Manager's perspective I bet he is highly regarded and few within the game have anything bad to say about him in that regard. Was it SAF who once said to manager's 'Choose the chairman not the club'.

Hopefully Martinez can channel this resilience within the squad and use it to push on. Please make the set up of the side more defensively sound though.

 

[catcherintherye]

I wasn't specifically talking about transfers, more the personal relationship Kenwright and Martinez have. I sense BK, after the tumult of losing Moyes who was his wingman, now feels comfortable with Martinez in the same way. Roberto has stepped up the past few weeks and fronted the organisation for Kenwright: shielding him from criticism and giving praise to him at the appropriate moment.

Kenwright prizes that highly in a manager. He needs that shield. Moyes provided it, Martinez has truly begun to fill the void left by Moyes this summer.

How do you see that developing? It is a worrying development for those looking for change at the top of the club.

You are right of course. Kenwright knows a close relationship with a manager allows himself the opportunity to send off the flak, but also look good in the media.

 

[catcherintherye]

Honestly I think Martinez is in charge of transfers and everything else when it comes to football matters. It's as simple as that. I sort of doubted that view with Stones because it was beginning to look all too familiar but the fact that Kenwright backed him made me realize that I was right all along and it was never the board that sold but rather Moyes.

Now the budget that the manager gets that's a completely different question. It will be interesting to see in the future if Martinez isn't going to sell players to generate his transfer funds whether Kenwright will still back him because that will put pressure on the board to release funds which they don't have.

Fair play to Martinez though. It's a risky strategy and he needs all the support from us fans for it to work.

I don't think that's the case. I think the reality is, we are now in a very strong financial position due to the increased sky money. I also think Martinez has put his foot own on this one.

If Stones were to leave on deadline day now, Kenwright would come under lots of criticism. If Martinez were to resign alongside him, I think lots of fans would turn. He can't afford that.

 

[marty mcfly]

I don't think that's the case. I think the reality is, we are now in a very strong financial position due to the increased sky money. I also think Martinez has put his foot own on this one.

If Stones were to leave on deadline day now, Kenwright would come under lots of criticism. If Martinez were to resign alongside him, I think lots of fans would turn. He can't afford that.

That could well be but it almost guarantees the stadium isn't happening which I guess most of you knew anyway. Next year will be interesting to see what happens in regards to this especially if there is movement on the stadium.

 

[catcherintherye]

In my more positive moments this is how I think. And I like it a lot because it's the perfect fit with Everton - not least because the club will actually stick with him through those tough but necessary times rather than panic and fire him like almost every other prem club would do.

There are definite drawbacks to this approach. Notably if the speed of improvement from the players isn't quick enough to outstrip the mistakes you have major problems. Also you run the risk of fans/the media/the board (though not at Everton) finishing you off. Also if too many mistakes are made, players can end up losing confidence. This is what happened with Barkley last year, he was taken too far out of his comfort zone and really struggled to ever find his form back.

This is what I mean by some pragmatism from Martinez. I don't mean he stops a passing game, but that we have to have a mixed approach, and be realistic in what can be achieved. Osman is not going to suddenly be as god as David Silva. Barkley will not turn into a Pablo Aimar style number 10. We will need some experience to rectify the mistakes from the younger players etc. Whatever happens, you can't afford to be carrying too many people at once.

However if we are patient enough I do think we will see it pay dividends. Under Martinez we have turned Stones into a reserve player bought for a couple of million into possibly the most expensive and highly rated young defender in the world. We have see Ross Barkley go from being a bit part player, to being central to Everton and increasingly England. Garbutt has shown he is capable of stepping up etc.

This will continue, But we do need to keep a positive atmosphere around the club to maximise this. Irrespective of Martinez's skill, playing in a cauldron of an atmosphere at Goodison, or the pressure form the media we had last season doesn't help people or footballers improve as quickly as they should. For Martinez his outlook is about losing fear, and anxiety, but when the fear of failure kicks in too strongly it won't work.

That's his biggest weakness for me. It is the arrogance/delusion that he can improve players irrespective of the wider factors.

 

[deipnosophist]

Comments like this are mad. Global superstar off the back of playing well against Barnsley? The hyperbole of football fans never ceases to amaze.

....misery guts...

 

[chippy1722]

Isn't it funny though how a manager's personality is reflected in both his transfer dealings and the way he sets his teams out. Martinez is a risky taker and Moyes is a steady Eddie.

Martinez is not a risk taker. Unless you mean giving McGeady, Alcaraz and Robles game time.