Roberto Martinez discussion

[Saint Domingo]

No he wasn't. He made one mistake for one of their goals but the rest of the time he was winning the ball back and passing or running forward.

That's the definition of 'rubbish' now. Putting tackles in, creating chances, pressing forward, all dangerous unnecessary stuff. Floating around aimlessly chasing after the ball without putting a tackle in then senselessly passing sideways and backwards is the order of the day now. Which is why the crab axis of Barry and McCarthy are nailed on to go straight back in against Tottenham where they will create jack all and offer zero protection to the defence. Oh but remember when Besic turned off for one second the other night? Oh yeah bench him for the season. Hilarious attitude.

 

[marty mcfly]

That's the definition of 'rubbish' now. Putting tackles in, creating chances, pressing forward, all dangerous unnecessary stuff. Floating around aimlessly chasing after the ball without putting a tackle in then senselessly passing sideways and backwards is the order of the day now. Which is why the crab axis of Barry and McCarthy are nailed on to go straight back in against Tottenham where they will create jack all and offer zero protection to the defence. Oh but remember when Besic turned off for one second the other night? Oh yeah bench him for the season. Hilarious attitude.

Well @davek is a huge Martinez defender so maybe he convinced himself the way we were playing last season was actually phenomenal.

btw - What's the aggregate score when we play Barkley and Besic together?

 

[davek]

What a complete pile of crap.

How could Moyes have pushed for more?

Moyes made his own transfer funds, as he said, Martinez will learn how Everton operate.

Sell to buy FC.

...as well as bringing in some very handy talent for minimum expenditure, Moyes transfer windows throughout his tenure were marked by his craven refusal to push for cash...or even demand the cash he'd generated through sales in some seasons. Kenwright used to give Moyesie a wedgie every summer and Moyes thanked him for it.

RM's been here two seasons and he at least has stopped the fraud from selling the family silver, for at least this summer. Ginger bollocks could never do that.

 

[Ihaters]

Martinez is an affable fellow. He knows his position in the hierarchy of a club and wont ever try and seek to challenge that. Whelan, Kenwright, whoever's next: RM will be respectful and work within budgets.

Moyes was a bigger letdown though because he was here over a decade and built up an unassailable position in relation to power relations at the club and could, if he'd wished, pushed for more finances. He didn't do that and we know why in retrospect: it's highly likely he was under advisement from SAF not to rock the boat with Everton's hierarchy for fear of it scaring the horses at OT. Moyes basically traded off better transfer windows for Everton to demonstrate to his future bosses that he was a safe bet.

Load of rubbish..

UNDER MOYES: We had no money.. so Moyes got no money.. Moyes sold players...therefore Moyes had money
UNDER MARTINEZ: Sky came in.. we had money.. Martinez got money.

That's the difference, we can now buy instead of sell to buy, we can improve without losing players, therefore we are not losing players.

 

[marty mcfly]

...as well as bringing in some very handy talent for minimum expenditure, Moyes transfer windows throughout his tenure were marked by his craven refusal to push for cash...or even demand the cash he'd generated through sales in some seasons. Kenwright used to give Moyesie a wedgie every summer and Moyes thanked him for it.

RM's been here two seasons and he at least has stopped the fraud from selling the family silver, for at least this summer. Ginger bollocks could never do that.

Or maybe the extra TV money has given them a little wiggle room. The Moyes/Martinez debate should be over.

 

[Goat]

...as well as bringing in some very handy talent for minimum expenditure, Moyes transfer windows throughout his tenure were marked by his craven refusal to push for cash...or even demand the cash he'd generated through sales in some seasons. Kenwright used to give Moyesie a wedgie every summer and Moyes thanked him for it.

RM's been here two seasons and he at least has stopped the fraud from selling the family silver, for at least this summer. Ginger bollocks could never do that.

Maybe you forget the barney he had with Elstone over the Lescott money?

 

[davek]

I see HK has given his seal of approval to the pace we're playing at this season. http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spor.../howard-kendall-evertons-new-approach-9943615

It pretty much flows from players being less static and more mobile and that movement allows us to get up the pitch a lot quicker than the ponderous stuff last season. I'm surprised HK didn't single out Cleverley in that respect. He's brought a lot of movement into the team further up the pitch.

 

[davek]

Maybe you forget the barney he had with Elstone over the Lescott money?

Did Elstone win?

 

[Goat]

Did Elstone win?

He sure did.

 

[keverton]

...as well as bringing in some very handy talent for minimum expenditure, Moyes transfer windows throughout his tenure were marked by his craven refusal to push for cash...or even demand the cash he'd generated through sales in some seasons. Kenwright used to give Moyesie a wedgie every summer and Moyes thanked him for it.

RM's been here two seasons and he at least has stopped the fraud from selling the family silver, for at least this summer. Ginger bollocks could never do that.

So are you saying kenwright wanted to sell stones but Martinez stopped him. Come on let's talk facts here. It would have been kenwrights decision not to sell stones. I know you don't like this board and neither do I but who have to acknowledge when your wrong and not give the credit to someone else. You said this board would sell stones to fund this window as I to thought they would. As of yet they have not sold stones and that's kenwrights decision not Martinez. You can't complain at kenwright when we sell a player then praise the manager when we don't.

 

[catcherintherye]

But we are not in a strong financial position relative to our peers. Martinez knows this and thus he is building a team from youngsters. It's going to take time to see if this is the correct strategy and it means that we're a way off realistically challenging for silverware.

The fact that Martinez backed by Bill did not want to sell Stones is great and should be hugely applauded but let's not think we are now financially strong because of this. We quite clearly are not.

No you are right, in a relative sense we are still weak. However in an absolute sense we have lots more money, and cash flow shouldn't be an issue as it was during particular times during the Moyes tenure.

 

[catcherintherye]

Martinez is an affable fellow. He knows his position in the hierarchy of a club and wont ever try and seek to challenge that. Whelan, Kenwright, whoever's next: RM will be respectful and work within budgets.

Moyes was a bigger letdown though because he was here over a decade and built up an unassailable position in relation to power relations at the club and could, if he'd wished, pushed for more finances. He didn't do that and we know why in retrospect: it's highly likely he was under advisement from SAF not to rock the boat with Everton's hierarchy for fear of it scaring the horses at OT. Moyes basically traded off better transfer windows for Everton to demonstrate to his future bosses that he was a safe bet.

Well yes. I think that's part of it, but I also think he was ground down by Kenwright and co. I worry that will happen for Martinez as well. If we keep Stones and spend 10 million it will have been a moderate summer. But Kenwright will act as if he has done Martinez a great turn, which at some point he will want back with a hefty bit of interest on top.

 

[marty mcfly]

So are you saying kenwright wanted to sell stones but Martinez stopped him. Come on let's talk facts here. It would have been kenwrights decision not to sell stones. I know you don't like this board and neither do I but who have to acknowledge when your wrong and not give the credit to someone else. You said this board would sell stones to fund this window as I to thought they would. As of yet they have not sold stones and that's kenwrights decision not Martinez. You can't complain at kenwright when we sell a player then praise the manager when we don't.

I think that's what a lot of people do - I've no idea why. Martinez and Kenwright are on the same team and no decision is ever taken over Martinez's head. It's why Martinez took the job. All Kenwright is responsible for is the budget Martinez has to work within. Does this mean that Moyes or Martinez could fight for more? No because every last penny already goes back into the team which is one of the reasons why our commercial revenue is so poor. You can't grow commercial revenue without first investing in it. We're a club that struggles to maintain our league position at all costs. We would either have to sacrifice that to grow other areas or stay were we are. What people can't do is make silly statements that Kenwright and Martinez aren't on the same side and Kenwright is the one that really controls transfers.

 

[davek]

Load of rubbish..

UNDER MOYES: We had no money.. so Moyes got no money.. Moyes sold players...therefore Moyes had money
UNDER MARTINEZ: Sky came in.. we had money.. Martinez got money.

That's the difference, we can now buy instead of sell to buy, we can improve without losing players, therefore we are not losing players.

For the extra tv revenue read loans taken out by the club and securitisation in the Moyes era. The Bear Stearns securitisation brought £30M in (still paying through the nose for that), Sky monies were advanced well in advance. Money was coming into the club also though performance related activity on the pitch. Moyes stood back and allowed it all to go on the board clearing off debt and servicing loans. There was no good reason why that should have been shouldered by the team. Moyes was a solid company man and took bullets for the owners (just as Martinez will do for years to come).

 

[Ihaters]

For the extra tv revenue read loans taken out by the club and securitisation in the Moyes era. The Bear Stearns securitisation brought £30M in (still paying through the nose for that), Sky monies were advanced well in advance. Money was coming into the club also though performance related activity on the pitch. Moyes stood back and allowed it all to go on the board clearing off debt and servicing loans. There was no good reason why that should have been shouldered by the team. Moyes was a solid company man and took bullets for the owners (just as Martinez will do for years to come).

What? We took out loans because there was no money, are you saying he should of stamped his feet and demanded we jeopardise the club for a transfer kitty?