Roberto Martinez discussion

[deipnosophist]

Or maybe the extra TV money has given them a little wiggle room. The Moyes/Martinez debate should be over.

you are right...working capital, the oil that lubricates day to day financial machinery, is ok thanks to TV money. Moyes operated in a much more oil crisis-like time (thus necessitating asset sales).

 

[davek]

So are you saying kenwright wanted to sell stones but Martinez stopped him. Come on let's talk facts here. It would have been kenwrights decision not to sell stones. I know you don't like this board and neither do I but who have to acknowledge when your wrong and not give the credit to someone else. You said this board would sell stones to fund this window as I to thought they would. As of yet they have not sold stones and that's kenwrights decision not Martinez. You can't complain at kenwright when we sell a player then praise the manager when we don't.

I believe that Martinez was given a free hand on the Stones issue. If he sold him then it was his decision and the board wouldn't have objected. As others have said, there's no imperative anymore to sell these players to settle the accounts. So it's been Martinez's intensity in rebuffing Chelsea that we have to thanks for Stones still being here. However, the remaining days of the window will show exactly what the costs are or aren't of that decision. If it means no quality signings and a decent spend, then the Stones saga ending as it looks like ending will be a hollow victory...a buzz that loses its thrill when the first run of poor results are faced.

 

[Ihaters]

For the extra tv revenue read loans taken out by the club and securitisation in the Moyes era. The Bear Stearns securitisation brought £30M in (still paying through the nose for that), Sky monies were advanced well in advance. Money was coming into the club also though performance related activity on the pitch. Moyes stood back and allowed it all to go on the board clearing off debt and servicing loans. There was no good reason why that should have been shouldered by the team. Moyes was a solid company man and took bullets for the owners (just as Martinez will do for years to come).

So your saying we cleared our loans and became financially sound instead of buying players?? As far as I am aware, the wolves were at the door and Bill was begging banks not to close us down. Or in other words, we repaid those loans so we could stay operational.

 

[marty mcfly]

you are right...working capital, the oil that lubricates day to day financial machinery, is ok thanks to TV money. Moyes operated in a much more oil crisis-like time (thus necessitating asset sales).

Yea even if we do eventually sell our prized assets for the stadium project the TV money has allowed them to at least wait a season or two. It's not this year we will really know were Martinez will be tested but next year if the stadium project goes forward.

 

[steken1]

Martinez has played it perfectly. That said if the real money was bid two weeks ago he was gone... Otherwise the ken wright statement would have come out weeks ago

 

[davek]

Well yes. I think that's part of it, but I also think he was ground down by Kenwright and co. I worry that will happen for Martinez as well. If we keep Stones and spend 10 million it will have been a moderate summer. But Kenwright will act as if he has done Martinez a great turn, which at some point he will want back with a hefty bit of interest on top.

Let's hope that isn't Martinez's quiescence on lack of spending power. The next few days might afford us a good indication about which we're headed.

 

[marty mcfly]

I believe that Martinez was given a free hand on the Stones issue. If he sold him then it was his decision and the board wouldn't have objected. As others have said, there's no imperative anymore to sell these players to settle the accounts. So it's been Martinez's intensity in rebuffing Chelsea that we have to thanks for Stones still being here. However, the remaining days of the window will show exactly what the costs are or aren't of that decision. If it means no quality signings and a decent spend, then the Stones saga ending as it looks like ending will be a hollow victory...a buzz that loses its thrill when the first run of poor results are faced.

Wrong the remaining days won't show that. We have lost out on our top target. The money is there but do I want him now to blow it on someone he doesn't believe in. No I don't but that has nothing to do with the finances. e.g. I'm not a huge fan of us getting Dzagoev. I think he will be another Billy and we would be better with a stop gap solution.

 

[deipnosophist]

Yea even if we do eventually sell our prized assets for the stadium project the TV money has allowed them to at least wait a season or two. It's not this year we will really know were Martinez will be tested but next year if the stadium project goes forward.

I don't think swapping intangible assets for tangible ones is the answer...in fact, for a football club specifically, I am sure it is not. Equity capital is required. A medical analogy would be dialysis vs getting a new kidney.

 

[marty mcfly]

I don't think swapping intangible assets for tangible ones is the answer...in fact I am sure it is not. Equity capital is required. A medical analogy would be dialysis vs getting a new kidney.

I'm not going to get into the whole stadium debate and here is certainly not the place but I think it's the only way we can either move forward or even stay were we are medium to long term. I respect the opinion of those that disagree and I know their arguments but I won't change my opinion on that.

 

[davek]

What? We took out loans because there was no money, are you saying he should of stamped his feet and demanded we jeopardise the club for a transfer kitty?

It would only have been jeopardised if the cash wasn't found elsewhere. These owners are massively rich people. Do you think if they had the option of making Everton pay for their failings or pay for it themselves they'd choose the latter? They secured their assets and future profit levels when a sale arrives by getting the team to take the hit and pay their interest payments down ON THEIR ASSET for them. If more money would would have gone to the team they'd have had to find that cash elsewhere to protect their assets.

Moyes was a boon to those people. He pretty much said: 'On you go. We'll manage with what we have'.

He had half an eye on the United job and that was dreamland stuff for this board - having a manager determined to show he could do things on a budget and keep his trap shut.

 

[deipnosophist]

I'm not going to get into the whole stadium debate and here is certainly not the place but I think it's the only way we can either move forward or even stay were we are medium to long term. I respect the opinion of those that disagree and I know their arguments but I won't change my opinion on that.

I was agreeing with you ...there are short term imperatives and long term ones. The capital necessary to facilitate these is sourced differently however.

 

[davek]

Wrong the remaining days won't show that. We have lost out on our top target. The money is there but do I want him now to blow it on someone he doesn't believe in. No I don't but that has nothing to do with the finances. e.g. I'm not a huge fan of us getting Dzagoev. I think he will be another Billy and we would be better with a stop gap solution.

Yeah, we're best not spending now because it will be rushed. Better to leave all the money to spend in January.

Pfffft!

 

[marty mcfly]

It would only have been jeopardised if the cash wasn't found elsewhere. These owners are massively rich people. Do you think if they had the option of making Everton pay for their failings or pay for it themselves they'd choose the latter? They secured their assets and future profit levels when a sale arrives by getting the team to take the hit and pay their interest payments down ON THEIR ASSET for them. If more money would would have gone to the team they'd have had to find that cash elsewhere to protect their assets.

Moyes was a boon to those people. He pretty much said: 'On you go. We'll manage with what we have'.

He had half an eye on the United job and that was dreamland stuff for this board - having a manager determined to show he could do things on a budget and keep his trap shut.

'On you go. We'll manage with what we have'.

That's exactly what Everton is. It's not a club were the owners have any intention of being involved. It's left up to the CEO and the manager to run the club and even when it comes down to it the commercial side is so small it's effectively really Martinez's club to do what he wants as long as he doesn't ask for any money and maintains a certain position in the league.

 

[deipnosophist]

If the news regarding a fresh loan drawdown is correct, Martinez has money for transfers. That is axiomatic

 

[marty mcfly]

Yeah, we're best not spending now because it will be rushed. Better to leave all the money to spend in January.

Pfffft!

I hate to say it but probably better leaving it till the summer but it would depend if someone becomes available.

But I know I agree with you - That's why I was so pissed when we passed on Shaqiri. I could see this happening and us being left in this position. I thought it was too risky a strategy and was going to leave us short and struggling this season.