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Roberto Martinez discussion

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Adversus said:
Why does that not fit with your little story you want to present to the fans so you can undermine the board?
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I'm not sure what you are trying to say in your comment mate, but I'll put that to one side.

Specifically I was referring to your assertion that "the owners" leave the running of the club up to RE and Martinez. If you believe that you are demonstrating a complete lack of understanding in what goes on at Everton. I was trying to save you the embarrassment of someone pointing it out to you.
 
deipnosophist said:
I don't think swapping intangible assets for tangible ones is the answer...in fact, for a football club specifically, I am sure it is not. Equity capital is required. A medical analogy would be dialysis vs getting a new kidney.
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No one is arguing capital isn't beneficial or even required. But as things stand now there's no chance of that since the board refuse to invest anything. What I'm saying is under those circumstances moving forward with the stadium is the best course of action.
 
the esk said:
I'm not sure what you are trying to say in your comment mate, but I'll put that to one side.

Specifically I was referring to your assertion that "the owners" leave the running of the club up to RE and Martinez. If you believe that you are demonstrating a complete lack of understanding in what goes on at Everton. I was trying to save you the embarrassment of someone pointing it out to you.
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In fairness. All those same people who said Bill runs everything also said Stones would be sold.

I have no doubt if it was Bill's decision Stones would be a Chelsea player right now. Absolutely no doubt whatsoever. However the recent events have shown Martinez is in complete charge of transfers. We already know he's in complete charge of the youth policy and the match day squads etc.

I'm just trying to ascertain exactly what day to day role you think Bill has or under which circumstance he would overrule Martinez?
 

Adversus said:
In fairness. All those same people who said Bill runs everything also said Stones would be sold.

I have no doubt if it was Bill's decision Stones would be a Chelsea player right now. Absolutely no doubt whatsoever. However the recent events have shown Martinez is in complete charge of transfers. We already know he's in complete charge of the youth policy and the match day squads etc.

I'm just trying to ascertain exactly what day to day role you think Bill has or under which circumstance he would overrule Martinez?
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I've answered all these questions before and then you flip/flop your responses.

Martinez is in absolute charge of footballing matters, but his budgets will be determined by the Board. RE as CEO both reports to, and responds to the direction of the Board - he's an employee charged with running the company at the Board's behest.

Re Stones, I have explained elsewhere why the Board did not wish to sell him.

Anyway in danger of off topic - this is a Martinez thread.
 
Adversus said:
In fairness. All those same people who said Bill runs everything also said Stones would be sold.

I have no doubt if it was Bill's decision Stones would be a Chelsea player right now. Absolutely no doubt whatsoever. However the recent events have shown Martinez is in complete charge of transfers. We already know he's in complete charge of the youth policy and the match day squads etc.

I'm just trying to ascertain exactly what day to day role you think Bill has or under which circumstance he would overrule Martinez?
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i'm really confused as to how this;

"Why does that not fit with your little story you want to present to the fans so you can undermine the board?"

translate to this;

"I'm just trying to ascertain exactly what day to day role you think Bill has or under which circumstance he would overrule Martinez?"

What ponit are you trying to make here? Can you dumb your posts down for me please as I'm clearly not intelligent enough to keep up

edit/ i'll leave esk to try and respond whilst I go lie down in a darkened room
 
the esk said:
I've answered all these questions before and then you flip/flop your responses.

Martinez is in absolute charge of footballing matters, but his budgets will be determined by the Board. RE as CEO both reports to, and responds to the direction of the Board - he's an employee charged with running the company at the Board's behest.

Re Stones, I have explained elsewhere why the Board did not wish to sell him.

Anyway in danger of off topic - this is a Martinez thread.
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Of course his budget is determined by the board. I've never said otherwise and we can blame the board for that.
 
As well as he has handled the Stones situation this week, he has also come across as completely contradictory as far as I am concerned over the transfer window this week.

Harping on about how it should close before the season starts.

Kind of goes against all of the ethos of our board and the way the club use the window, as we run everything up until the middle of August and we have been for our payday loan from Vibrac.
 
By god I'm blue said:
As well as he has handled the Stones situation this week, he has also come across as completely contradictory as far as I am concerned over the transfer window this week.

Harping on about how it should close before the season starts.

Kind of goes against all of the ethos of our board and the way the club use the window, as we run everything up until the middle of August and we have been for our payday loan from Vibrac.
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Not really. The transfer window is the way it is, and so theres no problem in using all of it...most clubs do. It doesn't mean Roberto has to like it, or Tony Pulis has to like it. Pulis hates it but is actively trying to sign players, just like Roberto.
 

Steve Wigan said:
Not really. The transfer window is the way it is, and so theres no problem in using all of it...most clubs do. It doesn't mean Roberto has to like it, or Tony Pulis has to like it. Pulis hates it but is actively trying to sign players, just like Roberto.
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Erm, yes really!

That's how we operate. He is slating a system his directors fully and definitely utilise to suit their needs and operational requirments.
 
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spor.../howard-kendall-evertons-new-approach-9943615

I’ll never be happy to see Everton lose any game, especially at Goodison Park - but I took plenty of encouragement from the display against Manchester City.

Taking the result aside, there was a freshness about the way Roberto Martinez’s team played that was satisfying to watch.

In particular it was the way Everton set up tactically.

They were more positive, more direct and quicker in the way they moved the ball.

Following on from that fantastic win over Southampton at St Mary’s, there was plenty of tempo about us.

Slowly the popularity of a system based solely on possession football and passing is on the wane as far as I can see.

Playing out from the back religiously only works for a small number of teams, the Spanish national side and Barcelona spring to mind, but otherwise it’s just not particularly exciting to watch.

Everton seem to be developing a more flexible way, and showing a pleasing habit to play from midfield.

Instead of sideways passes across the back four we are getting the ball to the centre of the pitch a bit faster, and then starting to play our football and pick our passes.

Instead of leaving fans frustrated, it actually gets them out of their seats when you raise the tempo the way we have lately.

Okay Manchester City had a little too much for us in the end. Let’s face it, even at this early stage they already have the hallmarks of Champions about them.

It’s not bad when you can bring players worth almost £100m from the bench to help you change the game is it?

But instead of ruing the days when we could turn City over regularly, I’m actually excited by the way Everton played against them on Sunday.
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Well said Howard.

Have to give huge credit to the players for changing the tactics and the way they play, finally realised that they aren't cut out for the slow posession based game (especially at the back) so have gone back to a faster more direct style that worked so well 2 seasons ago.
 
Whitty said:
i'm really confused as to how this;

"Why does that not fit with your little story you want to present to the fans so you can undermine the board?"

translate to this;

"I'm just trying to ascertain exactly what day to day role you think Bill has or under which circumstance he would overrule Martinez?"

What ponit are you trying to make here? Can you dumb your posts down for me please as I'm clearly not intelligent enough to keep up

edit/ i'll leave esk to try and respond whilst I go lie down in a darkened room
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The point was very simple. Some people blame The board whenever we sell one of our top players while praise Martinez for any player we buy. The board never do anything good in their eyes.

What I'm saying is Martinez is responsible for transfers and the board are responsible for the budget. Keeping or selling Stones doesn't validate or invalidate the board. They are separate issues. The board are only at fault for the net spend Martinez gets.

I'm honestly not even sure what part of that people disagree with or why I get attacked for voicing that view.
 
Adversus said:
The point was very simple. Some people blame The board whenever we sell one of our top players while praise Martinez for any player we buy. The board never do anything good in their eyes.

What I'm saying is Martinez is responsible for transfers and the board are responsible for the budget. Keeping or selling Stones doesn't validate or invalidate the board. They are separate issues. The board are only at fault for the net spend Martinez gets.

I'm honestly not even sure what part of that people disagree with or why I get attacked for voicing that view.
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If you'd have said that in the 1st place then I wouldn't have felt the need to comment. You're not very clear in what you want to say a lot of the time though and seem to change stance a fair bit.

You initially suggested the board don't do anything and leave everything to the CEO and Martinez. You then appeared to suggest one of the other posters had some sort of agenda when they pulled you on this. Finally when you do make a valid point (about the board setting the budget and Martinez making the football decisions) it doesn't fit with your previous posts. That's were the confusion comes from.

It's scatter gun posting to the extreme. Post enough thoughts and you'll finally hit one that makes sense.

Sorry for having a go as I do agree wih some of the posts you do make - just a lot of them are very confusing and don't seem to have much point to them.

You're right though - Martinez manages all footballing decisions and appears to have the backing of Kenwright in this - that's how it was with Moyes and it's continued with Martinez. Once everyone accepts this it's much easier
 

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