Roberto Martinez discussion

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As has been said, the combination of juggling all competitions along with the huge confidence knocking early results really took their toll on us last season. I never once advocated him being sacked, although my faith in him wavered a bit after the Stoke result. I did say he needs at least until Christmas to get us back on track and, hopefully without speaking too soon, he's back on track already.

Whether you agree or not with @davek and his ways of putting his views forward, his thread does show that our form has been very solid in 2015 and we need to keep building on it.

The sharks were circling after the Stoke result and he looked like a man going through a nightmare he didn't know how to wake up from. I fully expect that to be the lowest point of his Everton career though. He's found his feet again, got the team playing at a quicker tempo and made some decent acquisitions this summer. Injuries are the only dark cloud on the horizon. Not one game goes by without another casualty it seems.
 
Been a good few weeks for the boss. Very good few weeks.

Not gonna lie, had misgivings around Christmas, something was not right. I think we all know what that was now. But that flair and "sod em" attitude we had in his first season is returning.

Never wanted him out, search all you like, but I was baffled at what I watching at times last season. Ace to seemingly see the "old" Everton dusting themselves off.

Sky is the limit. Sort of.
I almost towards the end was starting to veer to wanting him gone but his character and likability always kept me in the Martinez in camp - just.

At times along with @davek I was defending him when other muppets who now apparently profess that you can't say anything negative stayed silent.

Well whatever. The main thing is we are on the up but we're far yet from the team that won 7 in a row and came so close to getting 4th. We've turned it around by defending deep and counter attacking mainly and I suspect our tactics have changed to account for Barry's weaknesses. This has both prevented us from conceding like we were doing last season, gets the best out of Barkley and Rom as well as given new life to Barry.

Against the weaker teams where we will be dominating possession I still don't think we've solved the problem of the No 10 that Martinez not the fans insisted that we needed but I don't necessarily think it's a personnel issue. If Barkley is to play that role then we need to give him players that will make runs in behind and be willing to get ahead of the ball otherwise against the weaker teams we will revert back to crab football. This however will depend on confidence as much as anything and hopefully by beating Chelsea with an attacking lineup once Besic was replaced will go along way to accomplishing that.
 
He seems to have changed tactics slightly. You don't see Barry dropping between the centrebacks anymore to start an attack off. Stones is bringing it out and finding Barry in the middle. McCarthy is also not next to him in a flat line, rather he is almost alongside Ross. This gives Barry two options when he gets the ball both of them being forward ones. We're not seeing so much crab passing as last season and we are pressuring the ball higher up the pitch which means we're not seeing the ridiculous spectacle of last season where there was a huge gap between Barkley up top with Lukaku and Barry and McCarthy.

I still feel we need a different midfield balance to regularly break down poorer defensive sides at home but it is a lot better than how we set up for most of last season.
 
The sharks were circling after the Stoke result and he looked like a man going through a nightmare he didn't know how to wake up from. I fully expect that to be the lowest point of his Everton career though. He's found his feet again, got the team playing at a quicker tempo and made some decent acquisitions this summer. Injuries are the only dark cloud on the horizon. Not one game goes by without another casualty it seems.

That evening at the Britannia was awful mate
I didn't think we were going to get relegated but he'd totally lost the plot at that point and it was a long drive home.

Even our board were probably having doubts at that point. Fair play to him though, winning three on the bounce after that showed a lot of character.
 

Last season was grim and he came close to losing the crowd completely at times.but his faith in barkley when he looked completely lost will be rewarded this season I feel.Its interesting to see him going in to games without much width to accommodate an extra striker.sometimes this will work and sometimes it won't. Hopefully bobby gets his tactics right fot most games
 
That evening at the Britannia was awful mate
I didn't think we were going to get relegated but he'd totally lost the plot at that point and it was a long drive home.

Even our board were probably having doubts at that point. Fair play to him though, winning three on the bounce after that showed a lot of character.

Nearly every single manager has gone through that type of period, Ferguson, Kendall version 1, to name just two of the highest profile ones, key is turning it around as most don't. For what it's worth after the Stoke game will admit that i thought he was done and wouldn't recover, never been happier than to be wrong though

looking at the way he trusts young players and strives to actually develop them rather than just ignoring them, got to admit we are lucky to have him, 9/10 managers are more concerned with their next contract or think one season at a time, Martinez is really trying to build something for the next 10 years
 
He seems to have changed tactics slightly. You don't see Barry dropping between the centrebacks anymore to start an attack off. Stones is bringing it out and finding Barry in the middle. McCarthy is also not next to him in a flat line, rather he is almost alongside Ross. This gives Barry two options when he gets the ball both of them being forward ones. We're not seeing so much crab passing as last season and we are pressuring the ball higher up the pitch which means we're not seeing the ridiculous spectacle of last season where there was a huge gap between Barkley up top with Lukaku and Barry and McCarthy.

I still feel we need a different midfield balance to regularly break down poorer defensive sides at home but it is a lot better than how we set up for most of last season.
You will laugh at the suggestion but I noticed that change too starting with the next game after the Carragher interview.

It's was probably just a coincidence and down to the fact that he can rely on Stones to bring the ball out this season.
 
As I have said fairly consistently through last season, that was a formative experience for Martinez, but it was the formative experience he was always going to have and in some ways needed to have.

Developing a new system, a new way of playing is always a challenging process. Given he had a lot of older players (some of them have been moved on) you could see he would run into difficulties. I can see that we have emerged at the other side of them now, and we have emerged stronger than before. We now have players who have bought into his way of playing, or alternatively players he himself has recruited to play in his system. Those who couldn't adapt, were unable to or didn't feel it necessary have been moved on.

There is a sense of calm and continuity that I liked about Moyes and I also like about Martinez. In his transfer dealings he rarely panics with signings and keeps the level of recruits we have per season at a manageable level. This was another quality of Moyes. We would add 1-2 to the squad each season in terms of transfers, and 1-2 would improve to be ready to step into the fray. Think how long Jagielka and Baines waited until they were eased in when the team allowed it.

Martinez is similar to this. We saw it last season with Stones, in season one with Barkley, this season with Galloway and Browning. He hasn't managed to acquire our much needed "number 10" but Martinez is able to see the bigger picture. He will not spend silly money on a player who isn't right for us. If you are building for the long term, what is another 6-12 months to wait in order to get the right player.

This calmness is translated into his tactics. Much like Moyes before him he has a calm and clear approach to the game. While these approaches differ greatly and are criticised by some for being too stubborn I think it has benefitted us for Martinez to stick to his approach.

I look at Liverpool now and the Echo are their fans are rightly saying they have no idea what their "identity" or "philosophy" is. These were catchy words Rodgers used to go on about consistently yet have no completely disappeared. They have gone from being a possession team, to a counter attacking team, to a side that controlled the game with a deep lying playmaker, to a side that played with 3 at the back and were hard to beat, to a side now that lump the ball forward to a big oik Benteke.

What this leads to is a group of players who have no idea what they are meant to be doing. Players are brought in to do one job, then that changes the following season and again the following season. Martinez came in for some stick last year for not changing things at the first sign of trouble like Rodgers, but in the end he has changed it so much and so often they have no idea what his end goal is.

By sticking to our convictions we have been able to ascertain who does and doesn't fit that system and slowly see improvements. rather than questioning the method we can question the personnel and find the bets suitable players to fit it.

Beating Chelsea 3-1 at the weekend was not a fluke, and the Echo are correct to say that sort of win is two years in the making. I watched our defenders, be they the majestic Stones dribbling it past their attackers, but also Mori, Jagielka and also Galloway moving the ball out of defence and you realise you are watching something very special. We had tired and demoralised one of the nastiest and best attackers in the league (Costa) to the point that he couldn't chase us anymore. This was always Martinez's vision and we are slowly starting to see the benefits of it.

To arrive at this point has taken time and a fair bit of patience and endurance. It has meant giving game time to Barkley, Stones, Lukaku etc and persevering with them even when they were struggling. They are all ready to be match winners now on the biggest stage.

I think we are on the brink of something quite special under Martinez. I hope he and the players don't let us down!
 
Nearly every single manager has gone through that type of period, Ferguson, Kendall version 1, to name just two of the highest profile ones, key is turning it around as most don't. For what it's worth after the Stoke game will admit that i thought he was done and wouldn't recover, never been happier than to be wrong though

looking at the way he trusts young players and strives to actually develop them rather than just ignoring them, got to admit we are lucky to have him, 9/10 managers are more concerned with their next contract or think one season at a time, Martinez is really trying to build something for the next 10 years

There is a lot of similarities between Kendall and Martinez. In his book he writes about having a young team in the early 80's, and even though we struggled he knew they would only get better. It's the same for us and Martinez.
 

He's always had my backing. Things were grim during the mid-winter of 14/15, but we've pulled out of that slump since then.

Sacking a manager is not a decision that should be taken lightly. i'm of the age were I can remember Villa (under Ellis) going round in circles for years. Newcastle have been the modern equivalent of that model, and to a lesser extent spurs.

No doubt a bad performance against Swansea will have the jarg tactical geniuses out in force again: I'll just slink off to the pub, and look forward to the next game.
 
As I have said fairly consistently through last season, that was a formative experience for Martinez, but it was the formative experience he was always going to have and in some ways needed to have.

Developing a new system, a new way of playing is always a challenging process. Given he had a lot of older players (some of them have been moved on) you could see he would run into difficulties. I can see that we have emerged at the other side of them now, and we have emerged stronger than before. We now have players who have bought into his way of playing, or alternatively players he himself has recruited to play in his system. Those who couldn't adapt, were unable to or didn't feel it necessary have been moved on.

There is a sense of calm and continuity that I liked about Moyes and I also like about Martinez. In his transfer dealings he rarely panics with signings and keeps the level of recruits we have per season at a manageable level. This was another quality of Moyes. We would add 1-2 to the squad each season in terms of transfers, and 1-2 would improve to be ready to step into the fray. Think how long Jagielka and Baines waited until they were eased in when the team allowed it.

Martinez is similar to this. We saw it last season with Stones, in season one with Barkley, this season with Galloway and Browning. He hasn't managed to acquire our much needed "number 10" but Martinez is able to see the bigger picture. He will not spend silly money on a player who isn't right for us. If you are building for the long term, what is another 6-12 months to wait in order to get the right player.

This calmness is translated into his tactics. Much like Moyes before him he has a calm and clear approach to the game. While these approaches differ greatly and are criticised by some for being too stubborn I think it has benefitted us for Martinez to stick to his approach.

I look at Liverpool now and the Echo are their fans are rightly saying they have no idea what their "identity" or "philosophy" is. These were catchy words Rodgers used to go on about consistently yet have no completely disappeared. They have gone from being a possession team, to a counter attacking team, to a side that controlled the game with a deep lying playmaker, to a side that played with 3 at the back and were hard to beat, to a side now that lump the ball forward to a big oik Benteke.

What this leads to is a group of players who have no idea what they are meant to be doing. Players are brought in to do one job, then that changes the following season and again the following season. Martinez came in for some stick last year for not changing things at the first sign of trouble like Rodgers, but in the end he has changed it so much and so often they have no idea what his end goal is.

By sticking to our convictions we have been able to ascertain who does and doesn't fit that system and slowly see improvements. rather than questioning the method we can question the personnel and find the bets suitable players to fit it.

Beating Chelsea 3-1 at the weekend was not a fluke, and the Echo are correct to say that sort of win is two years in the making. I watched our defenders, be they the majestic Stones dribbling it past their attackers, but also Mori, Jagielka and also Galloway moving the ball out of defence and you realise you are watching something very special. We had tired and demoralised one of the nastiest and best attackers in the league (Costa) to the point that he couldn't chase us anymore. This was always Martinez's vision and we are slowly starting to see the benefits of it.

To arrive at this point has taken time and a fair bit of patience and endurance. It has meant giving game time to Barkley, Stones, Lukaku etc and persevering with them even when they were struggling. They are all ready to be match winners now on the biggest stage.

I think we are on the brink of something quite special under Martinez. I hope he and the players don't let us down!
It's interesting that you compare us to Liverpool because we originally set-up exactly the same against Chelsea as Liverpool did against Utd with 3 defensive midfielders and Kone/Ings on the right with Firmino/Barkley in the middle.

Had we lost the same questions would be getting asked of Martinez as they are now Rodgers. It's a sign that both managers aren't 100% confident at that point. The biggest positive is our players are regaining their confidence so now all we need is the for the manager to do likewise. Bringing on Naismith as opposed to someone else was a good first step so hopefully it will continue against Swansea.

The ruck after the game with Mourinho was also a pretty big step in the right direction.
 

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