Roberto Martinez discussion

[mythbuster]

Reid and Bracewell were a wonderful midfield pairing - really complemented each other and the balance of Sheedy and Tricky - now that was a team

Tricky and Stevens also complimented each other wonderfully.

 

[jazzy]

Tricky and Stevens also complimented each other wonderfully.

Not one weak link in that team .

Even the subs did a great job

 

[davek]

That evening at the Britannia was awful mate
I didn't think we were going to get relegated but he'd totally lost the plot at that point and it was a long drive home.

Even our board were probably having doubts at that point. Fair play to him though, winning three on the bounce after that showed a lot of character.

Players will get a manager sacked, and that night's ineptitude had me very doubtful about how much they wanted Roberto to hang around. Yep, the board (for once) did the right thing and stood by him when the easier option might have been to bend to the will of the growing mob. And dont get me started on those rats in the local press.

As said above though, I cant help feeling a bit disappointed in some people who I thought knew better when they threw their hands in with the Martinez Out crew. I accept the position (as per the esk, for example) who waited for the end of the season to say they thought he needed to go early this season if certain targets weren't met. That's reasonable, I suppose. However, the tide that turned against Martinez was nauseous. Many of the same people were eulogising over him in that first season, then 6 months later are calling for his head. I cant stand that type of fickle behaviour.

 

[ah11984]

Still a bit bewildered he decided to start 3 holding midfielders at home against a Chelsea team with massive problems at the back, especially given the form of Ivanovic in particular. 'Fortunately' one of them got injured and the attacking substitution he made got a hat trick, so he deserves credit for that as I would have bought Mirallas on.

 

[bluestevon]

Players will get a manager sacked, and that night's ineptitude had me very doubtful about how much they wanted Roberto to hang around. Yep, the board (for once) did the right thing and stood by him when the easier option might have been to bend to the will of the growing mob. And dont get me started on those rats in the local press.

As said above though, I cant help feeling a bit disappointed in some people who I thought knew better when they threw their hands in with the Martinez Out crew. I accept the position (as per the esk, for example) who waited for the end of the season to say they thought he needed to go early this season if certain targets weren't met. That's reasonable, I suppose. However, the tide that turned against Martinez was nauseous. Many of the same people were eulogising over him in that first season, then 6 months later are calling for his head. I cant stand that type of fickle behaviour.

Dave back on topic we are discussing the 84-85 time here mate

 

[davek]

Dave back on topic we are discussing the 84-85 time here mate

Ha ha.

I have no idea what any of these threads are about anymore. They're going to have to start colour coding them.

 

[HuddersfieldToffee]

Can't remember who asked but here's an analysis of the game with the formations and that. Effectively, Martinez used forward pressing and Naismith (after coming on) to press Fabregas back, creating a broken team with too much of a gap between Midfield and Attack. Also Naismith would come into the half space to draw both Matic/Mikel out, and the full back inside because Pedro rarely tucked inside (something he won't be used to doing) http://beautywithinfootball.com/post/129129450774/everton-v-chelsea-3-1

 

[jazzy]

Players will get a manager sacked, and that night's ineptitude had me very doubtful about how much they wanted Roberto to hang around. Yep, the board (for once) did the right thing and stood by him when the easier option might have been to bend to the will of the growing mob. And dont get me started on those rats in the local press.

As said above though, I cant help feeling a bit disappointed in some people who I thought knew better when they threw their hands in with the Martinez Out crew. I accept the position (as per the esk, for example) who waited for the end of the season to say they thought he needed to go early this season if certain targets weren't met. That's reasonable, I suppose. However, the tide that turned against Martinez was nauseous. Many of the same people were eulogising over him in that first season, then 6 months later are calling for his head. I cant stand that type of fickle behaviour.

The Martinez debate is interesting.

In season 1 he took over a well established and defensively sound team and embellished with ball retention and passing game. The results were good - not exceptional but good.

In season 2 the team massively under performed and at times he appeared unable or unwilling to change tactics and personnel. Quite correctly that caused real alarm amongst many fans , myself included.

This season , so far , he seems to have learnt the lessons of last season - which is to be commended ( and expected ). However I have a feeling that his inability to sign a playmaker may come back to bite him on the bum. Let us hope that he continues to develop and learn from earlier mistakes.

 

[catcherintherye]

No doubt whatsoever that Southall was one of the top 2 or 3 keepers in the world mate, and their was a lot of very good keepers around back then too. Personally would say Ratcliffe was a world class cb myself, and my own opinion and maybe biased as he was one of my all time favourite players but think Steven was as well

Lets be honest here, most of the 85 team would get into our current team. But if I could pick one or 2, those would be the players.

 

[davek]

The Martinez debate is interesting.

In season 1 he took over a well established and defensively sound team and embellished with ball retention and passing game. The results were good - not exceptional but good.

In season 2 the team massively under performed and at times he appeared unable or unwilling to change tactics and personnel. Quite correctly that caused real alarm amongst many fans , myself included.

This season , so far , he seems to have learnt the lessons of last season - which is to be commended ( and expected ). However I have a feeling that his inability to sign a playmaker may come back to bite him on the bum. Let us hope that he continues to develop and learn from earlier mistakes.

That first season's results were exceptional. To come into a new club and work with its players plus a couple you already know from your ex club, get them to play in a fashion alien to them and have them smash through the 70 point barrier that would normally earn a CL spot was beyond all reasonable expectations.

I see things very simply between season's one and two under Martinez: tempo. Season one we played with it; season two we didn't. There was no energy or urgency - and for me the EL stuff explains the difference. Martinez handled that badly (too much emphasis was placed on it and too much energy spent on it). He did well to buy Cleverley in the summer. He's been a big feature in the return to a quicker tempo and cant get back quick enough for me. The playmaker: I agree. I think it will come back to bite us and that's one thing I'd criticise RM for not sorting out. Who knows, maybe January...although I wouldn't bank on it.

 

[roydo]

Who knows, maybe January...although I wouldn't bank on it.

One we were after might be available in January. But I wouldnt be rushing to William Hill just yet.

 

[Stanley Parker]

Imagine wanting Martinez fired though?

There was a moment there where a load of you turned into geordies and was screaming for his head. Had you got your way you would have set back Everton by years.

One brave man stood against you all, take a bow @davek.

For those who wanted him gone I deny you the right to enjoy Saturday's win.

I'm not taking anything away from DaveK, but he certainly wasn't the only one.

But he may well have been the most obsessive one.

 

[chicoazul]

I almost towards the end was starting to veer to wanting him gone but his character and likability always kept me in the Martinez in camp - just.

At times along with @davek I was defending him when other muppets who now apparently profess that you can't say anything negative stayed silent.

Well whatever. The main thing is we are on the up but we're far yet from the team that won 7 in a row and came so close to getting 4th. We've turned it around by defending deep and counter attacking mainly and I suspect our tactics have changed to account for Barry's weaknesses. This has both prevented us from conceding like we were doing last season, gets the best out of Barkley and Rom as well as given new life to Barry.

Against the weaker teams where we will be dominating possession I still don't think we've solved the problem of the No 10 that Martinez not the fans insisted that we needed but I don't necessarily think it's a personnel issue. If Barkley is to play that role then we need to give him players that will make runs in behind and be willing to get ahead of the ball otherwise against the weaker teams we will revert back to crab football. This however will depend on confidence as much as anything and hopefully by beating Chelsea with an attacking lineup once Besic was replaced will go along way to accomplishing that.

It's interesting that you compare us to Liverpool because we originally set-up exactly the same against Chelsea as Liverpool did against Utd with 3 defensive midfielders and Kone/Ings on the right with Firmino/Barkley in the middle.

Had we lost the same questions would be getting asked of Martinez as they are now Rodgers. It's a sign that both managers aren't 100% confident at that point. The biggest positive is our players are regaining their confidence so now all we need is the for the manager to do likewise. Bringing on Naismith as opposed to someone else was a good first step so hopefully it will continue against Swansea.

The ruck after the game with Mourinho was also a pretty big step in the right direction.

My favourites are the ones who've been deconstructing every performance to fit an agenda they had against Martinez but are now beginning to see certain facets of play that others have been pointing out all along, kind of like they're still trying to justify themselves and their superior football knowledge while keeping a foot in both camps.

It's very funny.

Very well said. Exhibits A & B linked above for reference.

I'm just surprised you found a poll where he actually nailed his colors to the mast. He won't make that mistake again.

Sometimes, my right winged bigoted Barca obsessing shitehound, it's just better to not comment if you're really not sure.

You can take that advice for free. It only makes you look silly, but you do a swell job of that each time you thrash your keyboard and press reply on here.

Keep keeping on toots. Everyone's pissing themselves laughing at you x

 

[Stanley Parker]

It was the 6-3 defeat to Chelsea early last season that was Martinez moment on his road to Damascus. His plan for the season went out of the window with that result, because he realised that conceding too many goals would be our downfall.

That was a strange game and - in my eyes - a one-off.

We started badly and gave two careless goals away early in the game. Chelsea were then able to sit back, and we could have closed the game down and settled for a 0-2 defeat.

But we decided to try to pull the goals back and, throwing caution to the winds, we hurled ourselves at them. We actually scored three - but we were wide open at the back and Chelsea scored three on the break. Besic presented them with the final goal.

I think it showed both our good and bad sides. But we didn't usually play like that.

 

[davek]

One we were after might be available in January. But I wouldnt be rushing to William Hill just yet.

Martinez seemed to be leaving the door open last time he spoke on the matter. I suppose it'd hinge on whether Kiev are out of the CL by then and how much could reasonably be offered/expected for a player in the last 6 months of their contract.

I fear that horse has already bolted though.

I'd go for Wes Hoolahan, twice the player that Ukrainian is.