Roberto Martinez discussion

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Wow the pat yourselves on the back crew are out in force today, 5 games into the new season cancels out 38 terrible games from last year.

Easily pleased some people. There is a long way to go yet and still a lot to prove that last season was the blip.

But keep congratulating yourselves for being so steadfast in the managers support, it's very good of you.

Read it again. Read slowly and carefully. :Blink:
 
I'm still not 100% convinced we actually wanted to buy Yarmolenko in the summer. That might just be me being cynical but the rumour came out at the same time the plane was about to fly and we left it so late that Kiev couldn't get a backup. I don't want to argue with you on this point because my account is playing up but unless we do eventually buy him I will continue to remain unconvinced we were actually after him.

I don't think we need a striker since Kone is a decent backup now he has his confidence back and is playing well plus we just bought Rodriguez.

As for the other players. We don't have that small a squad unless you conveniently as you have done remove a lot of players but unfortunately that argument doesn't matter when it comes to paying wages. Even assuming the likes of Gibson, Pienaar, Osman and McGeady aren't fit for purpose it still leaves 3 wingers when we rarely play 2 and if Yarmolenko is bought I can see one of them finding it hard to even make the bench.

I suspect your dad regrets that he didn't pull out of your mum in time on an almost daily basis.
 


Thank you - that's a very detailed account. I'll look out for it in future.

But I was really wondering how many fans who comment about tactics really understand them. The common view about Saturday seems to be that if we won, then Roberto must have got his tactics right - whatever they were.

And that - sadly - puts an end to discussion.

There's quite a few good sites that have covered Everton this year, from BWF to the really high-level and detailed spielverlagerung.com, which is a German fellow who's studied football for a long time. The consensus is that RM is an excellent tactician who specialises in very subtle changes, ones that don't impact the overall play that much, that can change the game. Things like playing Rom up against Monreal due to the height changes. But generally changing how high they play up the field to exploit the opponents.
 
As I have said fairly consistently through last season, that was a formative experience for Martinez, but it was the formative experience he was always going to have and in some ways needed to have.

Developing a new system, a new way of playing is always a challenging process. Given he had a lot of older players (some of them have been moved on) you could see he would run into difficulties. I can see that we have emerged at the other side of them now, and we have emerged stronger than before. We now have players who have bought into his way of playing, or alternatively players he himself has recruited to play in his system. Those who couldn't adapt, were unable to or didn't feel it necessary have been moved on.

There is a sense of calm and continuity that I liked about Moyes and I also like about Martinez. In his transfer dealings he rarely panics with signings and keeps the level of recruits we have per season at a manageable level. This was another quality of Moyes. We would add 1-2 to the squad each season in terms of transfers, and 1-2 would improve to be ready to step into the fray. Think how long Jagielka and Baines waited until they were eased in when the team allowed it.

Martinez is similar to this. We saw it last season with Stones, in season one with Barkley, this season with Galloway and Browning. He hasn't managed to acquire our much needed "number 10" but Martinez is able to see the bigger picture. He will not spend silly money on a player who isn't right for us. If you are building for the long term, what is another 6-12 months to wait in order to get the right player.

This calmness is translated into his tactics. Much like Moyes before him he has a calm and clear approach to the game. While these approaches differ greatly and are criticised by some for being too stubborn I think it has benefitted us for Martinez to stick to his approach.

I look at Liverpool now and the Echo are their fans are rightly saying they have no idea what their "identity" or "philosophy" is. These were catchy words Rodgers used to go on about consistently yet have no completely disappeared. They have gone from being a possession team, to a counter attacking team, to a side that controlled the game with a deep lying playmaker, to a side that played with 3 at the back and were hard to beat, to a side now that lump the ball forward to a big oik Benteke.

What this leads to is a group of players who have no idea what they are meant to be doing. Players are brought in to do one job, then that changes the following season and again the following season. Martinez came in for some stick last year for not changing things at the first sign of trouble like Rodgers, but in the end he has changed it so much and so often they have no idea what his end goal is.

By sticking to our convictions we have been able to ascertain who does and doesn't fit that system and slowly see improvements. rather than questioning the method we can question the personnel and find the bets suitable players to fit it.

Beating Chelsea 3-1 at the weekend was not a fluke, and the Echo are correct to say that sort of win is two years in the making. I watched our defenders, be they the majestic Stones dribbling it past their attackers, but also Mori, Jagielka and also Galloway moving the ball out of defence and you realise you are watching something very special. We had tired and demoralised one of the nastiest and best attackers in the league (Costa) to the point that he couldn't chase us anymore. This was always Martinez's vision and we are slowly starting to see the benefits of it.

To arrive at this point has taken time and a fair bit of patience and endurance. It has meant giving game time to Barkley, Stones, Lukaku etc and persevering with them even when they were struggling. They are all ready to be match winners now on the biggest stage.

I think we are on the brink of something quite special under Martinez. I hope he and the players don't let us down!

Mate there are some posts that I want to like twice but I can't. Bravo, a good read and really made my day.
 
The Martinez debate is interesting.

In season 1 he took over a well established and defensively sound team and embellished with ball retention and passing game. The results were good - not exceptional but good.

In season 2 the team massively under performed and at times he appeared unable or unwilling to change tactics and personnel. Quite correctly that caused real alarm amongst many fans , myself included.

This season , so far , he seems to have learnt the lessons of last season - which is to be commended ( and expected ). However I have a feeling that his inability to sign a playmaker may come back to bite him on the bum. Let us hope that he continues to develop and learn from earlier mistakes.

Ross is developing into the playmaker- I know he just said that to cover up for not being able to find one but Ross has done a very good job. He certainly has the ability to pick out that key pass into empty space.
 

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