Roberto Martinez discussion

[davek]

And he should rest and rotate. I know a sectipn of our fanbase are desperate for us to win a trophy that no Everton manager has ever won or taken massively seriously. The top teams don't take it seriously. Sides who have won it, such as Boro, Birmingham and Blackburn have hardly used it as a springboard for success, in fact their prioritising it over league performances have been to their detriment.
Essentially it's the sort of competition you want to go out to early, or make it to the final rounds.

Martinez obviously prioritises having a squad and a continental style of management which involves rotation. With Moyes I always thought he struggled juggling bigger numbers with a squad and we reproduced our best form when we down to our "bare bones" so he could drill an 11. Part mof wanting a bigger squad though is the understanding that you don't just throw your best 11 out week in week out.

People are delighted now with the form of Browning & Galloway, but giving (Browning) expereince in last years Carling cup (and Garbutt) is central to improving our young players. The year before thats where he blooded Stones. They need exposure and to see their is an opportunity for them. Thats why I was slightly surprised not so see Pennington or Hollgate at right back last night. Nobody likes seeing weeker players, but we like the end results when you have a 40 million pound centre half in our team. In the end you don't get one without the other.

Yeah, I see that and agree in part. But from a political point of view I think RM needs to be seen to be going full gas on the cup competitions (both of them). If we went out in these last two rounds it'd not have played well for him or for team morale. Imo, he's just about got out of jail by shifting back to something more orthodox in both ties so far after we'd gotten into trouble with experimentation.

I'd rather hand game time to younger players in PL games when the opportunity arises rather than chance it in a cup. Browning and Galloway played in the PL last season and found their feet that way.

 

[degsy]

Pulis' team will be tough to beat. They have their tails up again. I can see a bruising encounter there and a hard fought draw.

There are no easy walk-overs in the Prem, but really, a draw Vs the mighty WBA no less is the Catalan Wizard doing his stuff. Yes it a draw might be a 'good' result...under certain circumstances, for a given value of good
He 'may' be doing better than last season, low base line not withstanding. But I think 'Catalan Wizard' is over egging the pudding a tad

lets look at the results so far:

Wins; S'hampton, Chelsea. not exactly teams in crisis, but not far off, still had to be beat though. An unlucky, but fortuitous injury to Besic and Naismith bags a hat trick...you can almost see the Wizard's spell at work.

Loss; City. not the end of the world, up to now even this early they're the team to beat.

Draws; Watford, Spurs, Swansea...this is where He, We (the Club) and Me are struggling. some of the ingredients in the potion are missing, some you might stumble upon by luck, others you may have to pay top top Dollar for...is this likely to happen.

All together now...Oh, I wish it could be Christmas everyday

and I believed in Father Christmas
and I looked to the sky with excited eyes
'till I woke with delight at the first light of dawn
and I saw him and through his disguise.

#earlydaysyet

 

[chicoazul]

Speaking of Christmas and hairy creatures and failing to grasp the quotation system just to be contrary - do you celebrate Christmas on the day below - Boxing Day - by bumming a dog Zat you big liar?

holds out hands ready for cuffs*

Sadly you wont be saying that to me in the bedroom you hairy creature.

See you at Xmas.

 

[bluestevon]

Speaking of Christmas and hairy creatures and failing to grasp the quotation system just to be contrary - do you celebrate Christmas on the day below - Boxing Day - by bumming a dog Zat you big liar?

holds out hands ready for crufts*

Next one isn't till next March mate so your gonna have a long wait like

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Five or six warnings issued, with points, triggering some sizable suspensions.

Back on topic, or we'll have to remove you from the forum. Thanks.

 

[Ihaters]

Square pegs/round holes, taking off a striker and putting on a defensive player when losing, playing all sort of reserves like Lennon, Mori, I'm almost certain Mirallas would of started, Robles, Osman..

Got to say, its good to see certain posters attitudes changing on these things and seeing the positives, its important to use the squad to prevent unrest, not sure I'd use Lennon as a right back though, but what he's doing with Barkley and Stones is just epic. If he can just do the same for Lukaku, we are in business this year.

 

[davek]

There are no easy walk-overs in the Prem, but really, a draw Vs the mighty WBA no less is the Catalan Wizard doing his stuff. Yes it a draw might be a 'good' result...under certain circumstances, for a given value of good
He 'may' be doing better than last season, low base line not withstanding. But I think 'Catalan Wizard' is over egging the pudding a tad

lets look at the results so far:

Wins; S'hampton, Chelsea. not exactly teams in crisis, but not far off, still had to be beat though. An unlucky, but fortuitous injury to Besic and Naismith bags a hat trick...you can almost see the Wizard's spell at work.

Loss; City. not the end of the world, up to now even this early they're the team to beat.

Draws; Watford, Spurs, Swansea...this is where He, We (the Club) and Me are struggling. some of the ingredients in the potion are missing, some you might stumble upon by luck, others you may have to pay top top Dollar for...is this likely to happen.

All together now...Oh, I wish it could be Christmas everyday

and I believed in Father Christmas
and I looked to the sky with excited eyes
'till I woke with delight at the first light of dawn
and I saw him and through his disguise.

#earlydaysyet

Played 8 lost 1.

More of this.

 

[Chang Elephant]

Yep, only question I would have is Lennon at right back, strange behaviour

 

[catcherintherye]

Yeah, I see that and agree in part. But from a political point of view I think RM needs to be seen to be going full gas on the cup competitions (both of them). If we went out in these last two rounds it'd not have played well for him or for team morale. Imo, he's just about got out of jail by shifting back to something more orthodox in both ties so far after we'd gotten into trouble with experimentation.

I'd rather hand game time to younger players in PL games when the opportunity arises rather than chance it in a cup. Browning and Galloway played in the PL last season and found their feet that way.

For pragmatism it would be far easier for Martinez to go for a cup. There are a layer of fans who would forgive poor league performance and the club not moving forward as successfully as it might if we won the mickey mouse cup.

However at no point in his tenure so far has Martinez ever showed any real desire to bend too far from his overriding principles. I think he sees the league cup as an ideal opportunity to test out younger players. I support him in this. The caveat would be, if we get through the next round we should take it more seriously.

 

[Billy Dean]

Yep, only question I would have is Lennon at right back, strange behaviour

Maybe he wanted to replicate the offensive threat and width that Coleman gives. Coleman's backups (Browning and Pennington etc) aren't really that type of player.

 

[djsunyc]

team is playing super confident. our defense is looking great. we are having strong bounce back seasons from ross + howard. our youth potential and current performance is pretty tantalizing.

so far, i think he's done a great job as manager.

 

[Carlito]

I'm not really arsed what he does in the League Cup, but I suppose with no European games he should have a go at winning it.

As long as he now knows that Lennon at full-back isn't an option, I'm happy enough with last night.

 

[davek]

For pragmatism it would be far easier for Martinez to go for a cup. There are a layer of fans who would forgive poor league performance and the club not moving forward as successfully as it might if we won the mickey mouse cup.

However at no point in his tenure so far has Martinez ever showed any real desire to bend too far from his overriding principles. I think he sees the league cup as an ideal opportunity to test out younger players. I support him in this. The caveat would be, if we get through the next round we should take it more seriously.

It's true he's not going to ever play to the gallery at Everton. Good for him too. But he surely knows a club 20 years without a trophy is looking for some sign we can win one again. As you say, QF onward I could see him choosing a PL first choice team to start. If we get a home tie whatever line up or formation it'll probably be enough to get us to the quarters given the form of the first team squad so far this season. But imo if he has any sense and we get drawn away to PL opposition next round he should make a bold statement regarding the starting line up. If it backfires and we lose a player to injury or suspension or tire ourselves for the next PL game then so be it. It'd be worth the risk.

 

[catcherintherye]

It's true he's not going to ever play to the gallery at Everton. Good for him too. But he surely knows a club 20 years without a trophy is looking for some sign we can win one again. As you say, QF onward I could see him choosing a PL first choice team to start. If we get a home tie whatever line up or formation it'll probably be enough to get us to the quarters given the form of the first team squad so far this season. But imo if he has any sense and we get drawn away to PL opposition next round he should make a bold statement regarding the starting line up. If it backfires and we lose a player to injury or suspension or tire ourselves for the next PL game then so be it. It'd be worth the risk.

The problem is though, that sometimes it is about broad vision and outlook, which are obviously very important for Martinez. A chip away here and a chip away at it there somewhat undermines the point.

He obviously sees the League Cup as his opportunity to give a few different players an opportunity. Rather than ditching that altogether I think we'll see him gradually moving towards a stronger team as we go on. If we were in the final I'd imagine it would be out starting 11, but with Robles in goal.

For now I am happy to see the likes of Fumes Mori get some game time.

 

[davek]

The problem is though, that sometimes it is about broad vision and outlook, which are obviously very important for Martinez. A chip away here and a chip away at it there somewhat undermines the point.

He obviously sees the League Cup as his opportunity to give a few different players an opportunity. Rather than ditching that altogether I think we'll see him gradually moving towards a stronger team as we go on. If we were in the final I'd imagine it would be out starting 11, but with Robles in goal.

For now I am happy to see the likes of Fumes Mori get some game time.

He has to be judicious though. Maybe for the first two ties against Barnsley and Reading, because Wembley is so far off, it's been manageable without too much criticism to rotate - as long as the job was eventually done. Next round is a pivotal one in that respect. It seems most people would see the QFs as the time you get serious. However, we've invested a lot of time and effort into this run so far and meeting PL opposition away (good chance we'll meet PL opposition too) and employing an experimental starting line up would be met with a lot of resistance. Martinez is rehabilitated after last season in most people's eyes. If we went down without a decent team out from the off next round then he'd squander that. Hence my remark over political/pragmatic rather than tactical/methodological decision needing to triumph.

As said above: as long as we dont get an elite club at home then a home draw can be negotiated with rotation. Draw any of them home or away (or any other PL team away) and we really need to dispense with experimentation.