Roberto Martinez discussion

[davek]

Not grudging at all. Just don't share your blind acceptance as everything he does being not only faultless but part of a master plan. Yes, he picks the substitutes, but he also picks the starting eleven and I think he got that wrong last night.
I am a Martinez fan and I think he is the right man for the job but I think he still has things to learn.

A caricature of my view of this manager, but any port in a storm I suppose.

 

[bicycleheader]

And he should rest and rotate. I know a sectipn of our fanbase are desperate for us to win a trophy that no Everton manager has ever won or taken massively seriously. The top teams don't take it seriously. Sides who have won it, such as Boro, Birmingham and Blackburn have hardly used it as a springboard for success, in fact their prioritising it over league performances have been to their detriment.
Essentially it's the sort of competition you want to go out to early, or make it to the final rounds.

Martinez obviously prioritises having a squad and a continental style of management which involves rotation. With Moyes I always thought he struggled juggling bigger numbers with a squad and we reproduced our best form when we down to our "bare bones" so he could drill an 11. Part mof wanting a bigger squad though is the understanding that you don't just throw your best 11 out week in week out.

People are delighted now with the form of Browning & Galloway, but giving (Browning) expereince in last years Carling cup (and Garbutt) is central to improving our young players. The year before thats where he blooded Stones. They need exposure and to see their is an opportunity for them. Thats why I was slightly surprised not so see Pennington or Hollgate at right back last night. Nobody likes seeing weeker players, but we like the end results when you have a 40 million pound centre half in our team. In the end you don't get one without the other.

Great post even if I don't fully agree with all.

Whilst I'm loving the young players coming through, and understand the need to use these games to get them ready, I think that in regards to "springboarding" off the success in this cup, that we would be in a better position than the clubs mentioned to use the boost to the club\fans\players that a cup win could bring.

I really think that the injection of confidence that even a League Cup would bring to these early days of Bobbys reign could be beginning of even better times.

I would absolutely love us to win it.

 

[Stan Lee Park]

A caricature of my view of this manager, but any port in a storm I suppose.

Just trying to have a balanced conversation about the manager. Its a forum, after all.

 

[bicycleheader]

And that's exactly what it is - good on you for at least admitting it.

Others however just can't resist bumping this, win lose or draw, in order to have a bitch at others.

It's pathetic. There should be a warning in the title that it is not suitable for adults.

Bumping a thread like this is in a way, a form of vaulting. I hope you are not saying one of the key elements of the GOT fun be gotten rid of?

 

[Aar_the_Toffees]

Played 8 lost 1.

More of this.

The problem is though, that sometimes it is about broad vision and outlook, which are obviously very important for Martinez. A chip away here and a chip away at it there somewhat undermines the point.

He obviously sees the League Cup as his opportunity to give a few different players an opportunity. Rather than ditching that altogether I think we'll see him gradually moving towards a stronger team as we go on. If we were in the final I'd imagine it would be out starting 11, but with Robles in goal.

For now I am happy to see the likes of Fumes Mori get some game time.

I have a feeling this season we'll over achieve. Not by a little,by a lot. I think with the rest of the league ( bar City and Leicester) bring dross- we will make top 4 comfortably. Also get the feeling we'll make both domestic cup finals and face the same team losing the League Cup final but winning the FA Cup final.

 

[catcherintherye]

I have a feeling this season we'll over achieve. Not by a little,by a lot. I think with the rest of the league ( bar City and Leicester) bring dross- we will make top 4 comfortably. Also get the feeling we'll make both domestic cup finals and face the same team losing the League Cup final but winning the FA Cup final.

I tell you what mate, with certainty like that you need to get yourself down the bookies and have a cheeky river on that as a 3 fold!

 

[Aar_the_Toffees]

I tell you what mate, with certainty like that you need to get yourself down the bookies and have a cheeky river on that as a 3 fold!

I tried to. My bookie called me an idiot and told me to come back when I'm sober.

 

[Elong]

Martinez got lucky with his substitutions though. Still lol'ing.

Feguson got lucky in the '99 Champions League final too.

 

[rbm]

Every manager needs luck. Roberto Martinez is a relatively young manager and young managers have a lot to learn. Other managers in London, in Manchester and across the Park have much more money.

These are basic realities. In all the circumstances RM has been doing a very good job and has my 100% support.

Is he perfect? No. Who is?

What relatively young manager knows everything? None of them.

 

[toffeejack]

Every manager needs luck. Roberto Martinez is a relatively young manager and young managers have a lot to learn. Other managers in London, in Manchester and across the Park have much more money.

These are basic realities. In all the circumstances RM has been doing a very good job and has my 100% support.

Is he perfect? No. Who is?

What relatively young manager knows everything? None of them.

spot on. A Manager's gameplan goes beyond who he picks as a starting XI, they also have subs in mind based on different situations. I bet the massive majority of everton fans didn't want to see naismith come on for besic - it's not luck that martinez got the decision right.

 

[Khalekan]

And he should rest and rotate. I know a sectipn of our fanbase are desperate for us to win a trophy that no Everton manager has ever won or taken massively seriously. The top teams don't take it seriously. Sides who have won it, such as Boro, Birmingham and Blackburn have hardly used it as a springboard for success, in fact their prioritising it over league performances have been to their detriment.
Essentially it's the sort of competition you want to go out to early, or make it to the final rounds.

I have to take issue with that opening paragraph of your post.

No Everton manager has ever taken the League Cup "massively seriously"?

Billy Bingham, Steve Burtenshaw and Gordon Lee certainly did as they were the three men at the helm in the 1976/77 season which culminated in the Villa trilogy.

Not only did Howard Kendall "take it seriously" in 1984, but the League/Milk Cup run restored our fortunes and built the confidence which saw our young team embark on an unprecedented three year glory spell.

You cite the fact that "teams such as Boro, Birmingham and Blackburn" have won it as if it was some sort of proof that the "top teams don't take it seriously" when the reality is that in the last decade the League Cup has been won by Chelsea on three occasions, by United three times and once each by Spurs, Liverpool and Manchester City.

That is pretty much a comprehensive roll call of the "top teams" in this country.

Only Arsenal and Everton missing.

And it is still a mystery to all who watched the game how Arsenal lost to Birmingham the year the latter won it.

I might be old fashioned in an age when a beaten generation of Everton fans tends to link us to a group containing "Boro, Birmingham and Blackburn" but I tend to think of EFC as a "top club" which would indeed use a win in the League Cup as a "springboard for success".

IMO there is far too much snobbishness among people on this board about the League Cup.

Already it is exciting the fans and the Norwich tie will be a fantastic night at Goodison.

Thank goodness we have a manager whom will indeed "take it seriously"...,,..just like our most successful manager ever did back in 1984.

 

[royvernon39]

I could never understand why DM would play a weakened side in the early rounds of the League Cup. There are three domestic competitions and only 2 which EFC can hope of winning. The League Cup is also a competition made for an ordainry team. As for that matter is the FA Cup too.

And especially when you do not the Europa League to plan for. Winning games produces confidence which helps to win games.

We should beat Norwich and hey presto the quarter-finals..

 

[catcherintherye]

I have to take issue with that opening paragraph of your post.

No Everton manager has ever taken the League Cup "massively seriously"?

Billy Bingham, Steve Burtenshaw and Gordon Lee certainly did as they were the three men at the helm in the 1976/77 season which culminated in the Villa trilogy.

Not only did Howard Kendall "take it seriously" in 1984, but the League/Milk Cup run restored our fortunes and built the confidence which saw our young team embark on an unprecedented three year glory spell.

You cite the fact that "teams such as Boro, Birmingham and Blackburn" have won it as if it was some sort of proof that the "top teams don't take it seriously" when the reality is that in the last decade the League Cup has been won by Chelsea on three occasions, by United three times and once each by Spurs, Liverpool and Manchester City.

That is pretty much a comprehensive roll call of the "top teams" in this country.

Only Arsenal and Everton missing.

And it is still a mystery to all who watched the game how Arsenal lost to Birmingham the year the latter won it.

I might be old fashioned in an age when a beaten generation of Everton fans tends to link us to a group containing "Boro, Birmingham and Blackburn" but I tend to think of EFC as a "top club" which would indeed use a win in the League Cup as a "springboard for success".

IMO there is far too much snobbishness among people on this board about the League Cup.

Already it is exciting the fans and the Norwich tie will be a fantastic night at Goodison.

Thank goodness we have a manager whom will indeed "take it seriously"...,,..just like our most successful manager ever did back in 1984.

Good post mate. I suppose what I meant by not taking it seriously is no manager in Everton's history has ever deemed the league cup as important enough to go ahead and win it. And in the fans eyes no manager has ever been judged negatively because of their inability to do so.

The league cup may have been won by "top teams" but it's won by top teams playing heavily weakened, often bordering on youth teams. Chelsea had players making their debuts last night.
I agree with you, we are in the same bracket as these teams and should treat this competition the same way they do. IE it is an opportunity to win a trophy, but also a chance to blood squad players and young players into the side.

Alternatively you get small teams like Boro, Birmingham and Blackburn who tale the trophy seriously, give it their all and in all honesty by doing so they have massively messed their clubs up in the process. Going hell for leather for a cup the top teams don't care about and trying to use it as a stick to beat an Everton manager with is the behaviour of small teams. The one exception to this is Kopites who carry on like the trophy means something. They also have a small club mentality. Their owners don't like, they sacked a manager even though he won the league cup. That tells you all you need to know about it's importance.

There has also been a lot of evidence to show that "big" clubs like Spurs have really struggled after they win the league cup in the league.

I should make it clear I am not against trying to win football games and trophies. What I am against is people inflating the importance of this competition and using it as a way to knock the manager. I also agree with how Martinez is using it, as a way of giving opportunities to fringe players and younger players. It's all part of developing a broader squad.

 

[vagant59]

Every manager needs luck. Roberto Martinez is a relatively young manager and young managers have a lot to learn. Other managers in London, in Manchester and across the Park have much more money.

These are basic realities. In all the circumstances RM has been doing a very good job and has my 100% support.

Is he perfect? No. Who is?

What relatively young manager knows everything? None of them.

THEY SAY FORTUNE FAVOUR'S THE BRAVE AND UNLIKE LAST SEASON BOBBY HAS BEEN BRAVE THIS TIME AROUND AND A LITTLE FORTUNATE

 

[Titus Bramble]

WHY ARE WE SHOUTING