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Roberto Martinez discussion

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i think winning ANY trophy is important, just to build a winning mentality and a confidence that comes with it.

As of late we're bottlers, if we can get past that once its sort of like removing a barrier / and hoping that our younger players coming through get more of that 'winners' mentality so it springboards us to more success.

Absolutely this. If (and it's a big if) we can win the league cup (or the FA cup for that matter) this year, Martinez would be the most successful Everton manager in 20 years. That in itself should bring a winners mentality to the club and the fans.

Would be so boss if we won the cup.
 
i think winning ANY trophy is important, just to build a winning mentality and a confidence that comes with it.

As of late we're bottlers, if we can get past that once its sort of like removing a barrier / and hoping that our younger players coming through get more of that 'winners' mentality so it springboards us to more success.

Youd think by some here that wed won loads over the past 30 years, utter nobs people who wouldnt want to see us win any cup league, fa, eufa etc. Made up martinez enters every competion with the intent to win it
 
Good post mate. I suppose what I meant by not taking it seriously is no manager in Everton's history has ever deemed the league cup as important enough to go ahead and win it. And in the fans eyes no manager has ever been judged negatively because of their inability to do so.

I can only conclude from that paragraph that in your eyes failure to win a competition is because a manager "deems" not to think it important enough to "go ahead and win it"

I suppose you had to have been on the odyssey from Wembley to Old Trafford via Villa Park to see how important Gordon Lee "deemed" going ahead and winning it to be.......his teams were dead on their feet as they busted a gut to lift the League Cup.

And to take your bizarre logic a step further, Harry Catterick had two attempts at winning the European Cup.

Happen he didn't deem the competition important enough when we surprisingly lost to Panathinaikos in the latter stages in 1971.
 

i think winning ANY trophy is important, just to build a winning mentality and a confidence that comes with it.

As of late we're bottlers, if we can get past that once its sort of like removing a barrier / and hoping that our younger players coming through get more of that 'winners' mentality so it springboards us to more success.

I wonder if Martinez will be seen as a bottler if he gets through to the finals or semi-finals of a cup competition only to be beaten by a superior side? I'm desperate for us to win a trophy, I'd celebrate as much as anyone, and I'd love it if it did breed a winning mentality and spurred us on to greater things. My worry is that most Evertonians would dine out on winning the League Cup for the next ten years, and people like Martinez will be afforded excuses for ever more, all because he managed to achieve the same accomplishment as Alex McLeish.
 
I wonder if Martinez will be seen as a bottler if he gets through to the finals or semi-finals of a cup competition only to be beaten by a superior side? I'm desperate for us to win a trophy, I'd celebrate as much as anyone, and I'd love it if it did breed a winning mentality and spurred us on to greater things. My worry is that most Evertonians would dine out on winning the League Cup for the next ten years, and people like Martinez will be afforded excuses for ever more, all because he managed to achieve the same accomplishment as Alex McLeish.

Behave lad. If we win a cup I'm going drinking for a week to celebrate
 
Behave lad. If we win a cup I'm going drinking for a week to celebrate

Me too. Celebrating for a week is fine, maybe even for a year, but not for five years, or 10 years. I don't use the term often, but that really would be very 'small-time'. And that would be the case from some of our fan base, you could hardly say a bad word about Moyes when he was with us and he didn't win anything at all.
 

Good post mate. I suppose what I meant by not taking it seriously is no manager in Everton's history has ever deemed the league cup as important enough to go ahead and win it. And in the fans eyes no manager has ever been judged negatively because of their inability to do so.

The league cup may have been won by "top teams" but it's won by top teams playing heavily weakened, often bordering on youth teams. Chelsea had players making their debuts last night.
I agree with you, we are in the same bracket as these teams and should treat this competition the same way they do. IE it is an opportunity to win a trophy, but also a chance to blood squad players and young players into the side.

Alternatively you get small teams like Boro, Birmingham and Blackburn who tale the trophy seriously, give it their all and in all honesty by doing so they have massively messed their clubs up in the process. Going hell for leather for a cup the top teams don't care about and trying to use it as a stick to beat an Everton manager with is the behaviour of small teams. The one exception to this is Kopites who carry on like the trophy means something. They also have a small club mentality. Their owners don't like, they sacked a manager even though he won the league cup. That tells you all you need to know about it's importance.

There has also been a lot of evidence to show that "big" clubs like Spurs have really struggled after they win the league cup in the league.

I should make it clear I am not against trying to win football games and trophies. What I am against is people inflating the importance of this competition and using it as a way to knock the manager. I also agree with how Martinez is using it, as a way of giving opportunities to fringe players and younger players. It's all part of developing a broader squad.

You don't think Moyes was judged negatively because of his inability to win the league cup? I'd have to disagree with that.

It was/is constantly pointed out that he never won a trophy and therefore 'failed' as a manager. Had he won the league cup this criticism wouldn't have been levelled at him, and he may have lost the 'bottler' tag that many people applied to him. When we lost at Leeds in that competition, the criticism of Moyes was as bad as at any time I can remember during his tenure.

For me, football is about the glory. I've had a season ticket at Everton for 20 years and seen us win one trophy - I want to see us lift another one and we basically only get 2 chances per year to do that. To throw one of them away in some sort of misguided attempt to give experience to kids would be madness in my mind.

I think Martinez has got his selections right so far in the competition. He's given game time to those who need it and played strong enough teams to win. We have a squad where players like Mirallas, Lennon, Deulofeu and Besic aren't playing so theres no reason why we shouldn't be able to make a few changes and still win games.
 
I wonder if Martinez will be seen as a bottler if he gets through to the finals or semi-finals of a cup competition only to be beaten by a superior side? I'm desperate for us to win a trophy, I'd celebrate as much as anyone, and I'd love it if it did breed a winning mentality and spurred us on to greater things. My worry is that most Evertonians would dine out on winning the League Cup for the next ten years, and people like Martinez will be afforded excuses for ever more, all because he managed to achieve the same accomplishment as Alex McLeish.

Di matteo won the european cup for chelsea mate, honestly couldnt care less who won it as manager in the past, we as a club never has and its time to right that stat
 
I dont know how people are calling bobby lucky cos of besic injury, for one, allthough i wasnt massively happy when i saw 3 holding midfielders walk out onto the pitch we dont know how that game would of turned out cos it didnt have the chance to and secondly he chose naismith out of a group of quality players at his disposal, now how many people on here would of chosen naismith over mirralles, lennon or deulofeu, i doubt many so it was still bobby’s tactics that won us the game.
 
Youd think by some here that wed won loads over the past 30 years, utter nobs people who wouldnt want to see us win any cup league, fa, eufa etc. Made up martinez enters every competion with the intent to win it

You think there are fans that wouldn't want us to win a cup?
 

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