Roberto Martinez Shenanigans: All Reaction Here

[bluestevon]

I didn't blame the defeat against Chelsea in the final on Moyes, totally agree with you about your reasons for us losing that day.

The unfortunate thing for Moyes during his tenure at the club has been he's never had a team with strength in all positions, with the exception of this season. And when he's finally had a good balanced 11, he's simply had no one to replace out of form or injured players with.

I'd argue that Moyes biggest weakness has been his lack of youth development. His tag as being a manager that encourages youth baffles me, I think his PR team have pulled a blinder there.

isn,t that subject to oponion though, if you dont or ont play younger or squad players regardless of how out of form the some of the starting 11 are then use it as the dfence for why you had no choice but to play said out of form players, its kinda inventing a weakness to explain your own personal choices.

i personally think barkley, duffy, oviedo, even mucha, stones once he arrived should have all seen a lot more game time this year, not to mention velios, kennedy (young scot lad) Lundstram and maybe 1 or 2 others.

game time at the expense of the out of form in some case for months in the case of osman, howard, blag hard man johnny and a lesser extent pinear and jella, not even gonna comment much on naismith but havnt seen much worse in our shirt for a long time tbh

 

[maddison]

Any youth thats been good enough has had a good run, its not a myth, Jack Rodwell played over 100 games before his 21st Birthday, Wayne Rooney around 80 before he was 18, the only PR is from fans, who clamour for these young lads, who lets face it, see out their careers at Tranmere and Oldham.

I seem to recall Rodwell getting a run because he didn't have much more of an option than to play him. He played him in midfield remember, not as a centre back.

Rooney was something else, any club in the Prem would have played him that young because he stood out so much.

In 11 years you've picked out 2 players, one that played due to necessity .........

 

[Eric Djemba-Djemba]

Wigan was our 4th qf under moyes and the first one we didn't win.

If qf's are big games then they're big games when we win as well as when we lose.

Fair point mate

 

[Allezfan]

I seem to recall Rodwell getting a run because he didn't have much more of an option than to play him. He played him in midfield remember, not as a centre back.

Rooney was something else, any club in the Prem would have played him that young because he stood out so much.

In 11 years you've picked out 2 players, one that played due to necessity .........

In 11 years he either did in 5 times or 6, depending on whether your defenitions.

Rodwell, Rooney, Hibbert, Osman, Anichebe and possibly Coleman.

It's not a great record.

 

[maddison]

isn,t that subject to oponion though, if you dont or ont play younger or squad players regardless of how out of form the some of the starting 11 are then use it as the dfence for why you had no choice but to play said out of form players, its kinda inventing a weakness to explain your own personal choices.

i personally think barkley, duffy, oviedo, even mucha, stones once he arrived should have all seen a lot more game time this year, not to mention velios, kennedy (young scot lad) Lundstram and maybe 1 or 2 others.

game time at the expense of the out of form in some case for months in the case of osman, howard, blag hard man johnny and a lesser extent pinear and jella, not even gonna comment much on naismith but havnt seen much worse in our shirt for a long time tbh

That would feed into my argument of him not giving youth enough of a go. Our main problem this season though was someone up front, when you're best attacking option to bring on is Naismith....... pretty much sums it up really. Some would argue that he should have given Vellios a run, but again he is young and Moyes didn't rate him.

 

[Goat]

I seem to recall Rodwell getting a run because he didn't have much more of an option than to play him. He played him in midfield remember, not as a centre back.

Rooney was something else, any club in the Prem would have played him that young because he stood out so much.

In 11 years you've picked out 2 players, one that played due to necessity .........

I picked those 2 players cos quite frankly, they are the only 2 that are still currently playing Premiership football.

I mean theres Victor and Vaughan, but off the top of my head, who else hasnt been used and has gone to become a player?

 

[Eric Djemba-Djemba]

I must have imagined Man city this season, Spurs in December, and Man U in August...... :blink:

There's a reason why teams who spend big finish above you, for a club that has a low spend like ours, anytime you beat a team that out spends you, you've won a big game.

We're not suddenly going to start hammering Chelsea, Arsenal, Man U, Man City, Spurs etc simply because we have an attacking Martinez at the helm. Neither would we with Vitor or Ralf, that's just fantasy world.

Do I think we're more likely to concede more defeats with a different manager to Martinez, absolutely. But lets not kid our selves into thinking we'll suddenly have the attacking capabilities of Barcelona because we'll be playing 3-4-3

I'm taking about cup games mate, as a league manager Moyes is for the most part very good. Of course I want us to be high up in the league but most of all I want a cup.

 

[maddison]

In 11 years he either did in 5 times or 6, depending on whether your defenitions.

Rodwell, Rooney, Hibbert, Osman, Anichebe and possibly Coleman.

It's not a great record.

You can argue he'll have better youth players to pool from at United, but I think they're in for a rude awakening when they realise he won't play youth unless he absolutely has to, or they're a Rooney'esq type superstar.

 

[bluestevon]

think another part of it is that deffo 2 of the best of the current lads only got their chance due to luck not design, without that luck would either baines or coleman have been deemed by him as good or ready enough, and looking back now both were probably held back way past the point the way ready and would have for a lot longer if moyes hadnt had his hand forced by circumstances

 

[bluestevon]

You can argue he'll have better youth players to pool from at United, but I think they're in for a rude awakening when they realise he won't play youth unless he absolutely has to, or they're a Rooney'esq type superstar.

can also argue that the level of player they would be getting time ahead of as a young player at utd is higher than at everton, plus they have bigger first team squads with a bench worth that cost more than most of our starters

 

[Allezfan]

think another part of it is that deffo 2 of the best of the current lads only got their chance due to luck not design, without that luck would either baines or coleman have been deemed by him as good or ready enough, and looking back now both were probably held back way past the point the way ready and would have for a lot longer if moyes hadnt had his hand forced by circumstances

He bought them both for peanuts and they've gone on to become two of the best fullbacks in the country under his guidance, though.

Don't get me wrong, I was calling for them both to be given more of a chance earlier too but it's hard to criticize him too much on either of them given the results.

 

[maddison]

I picked those 2 players cos quite frankly, they are the only 2 that are still currently playing Premiership football.

I mean theres Victor and Vaughan, but off the top of my head, who else hasnt been used and has gone to become a player?

That's true, I could cite Mcmanaman as being released by the club, but I'd be reaching there. Maybe he simply just doesn't have the talent at his disposal.

That would suggest to me though that he doesn't have the roots of the club worked out as well as some would have us believe. If our youth development was great, then we should be bringing a player or two through every season. Then again you could argue very few teams seem to do that in the prem anyway, which is a problem with the premiership as a whole.

 

[Billy Dean]

I must have imagined Man city this season, Spurs in December, and Man U in August...... :blink:

There's a reason why teams who spend big finish above you, for a club that has a low spend like ours, anytime you beat a team that out spends you, you've won a big game.

We're not suddenly going to start hammering Chelsea, Arsenal, Man U, Man City, Spurs etc simply because we have an attacking Martinez at the helm. Neither would we with Vitor or Ralf, that's just fantasy world.

Do I think we're more likely to concede more defeats with a different manager to Martinez, absolutely. But lets not kid our selves into thinking we'll suddenly have the attacking capabilities of Barcelona because we'll be playing 3-4-3

For me it's not about the winning of those games, of course budgets dictate that we're more likely to lose those games. My issue was always with the approach to those games, just sitting back full of fear hoping for a 0-0. We're going to lose anyway, why not go out fighting and have a go?

 

[Goat]

think another part of it is that deffo 2 of the best of the current lads only got their chance due to luck not design, without that luck would either baines or coleman have been deemed by him as good or ready enough, and looking back now both were probably held back way past the point the way ready and would have for a lot longer if moyes hadnt had his hand forced by circumstances

Thats bullshine and I aint having that.

Coleman was played RW, to learn the English game, hes only played actual football since he was 16, before that he played Galiac(sp) "football", Baines had to wait his chance, cos Lescott was playing like a beast at LB, plus he struggled a lot with injuries earlier on.

We paid 6m? for Baines, if you think he was bought to sit on the bench, you clearly never knew Moyes.

 

[bluestevon]

arteta mate the one thing about moyes i will always shout out about is that he had a great eye for a player on peanuts, the couter to that is that almost like a self doubt thing he then seemed to dilly dally about playing them until he had no choice about it, then again i can still remember thinking way back wehn he didnt even play rooney enough ;/