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Ronald Koeman discussion

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I think you've got to give him time. He's inherited a hugely deteriorating, unconfident and vastly overrated team. However, if this fella is picking up £6m a year (£115k a week), to manage this team, I expect to see SOME improvement from last season.
Some of us go home and away week in, week out, and will earn close to what he earns in a week, in 5 years. It's frustrating as hell to watch, as the reality is, if we've struggled to show any creativity or even enthusiasm on the pitch now, since the West Brom game, and it's hugely concerning.
Last season, the majority of fans, were hugely critical or Martinez's final 6 months was his inability to change it (his lack of plan B, if you like), and how the 4-5-1 was a nightmare, as teams would just double up on Lukaku, and isolate him. This season, we're lining up against a bang average Watford with Gueye, Barry and McCarthy, THREE holding midfielders. We witnessed the introduction of Valencia against United, change the game, and cause their defenders to panic, and allow us a way back into the game. So you can imagine how annoyed most of us were, when instead of starting two up top yesterday, we brought in an extra defensive minded player. Valencia, Holgate etc... must me scratching their heads at what they have to do to get a game?
I think I speak for most Evertonians that we like to see our team playing good football as well as picking up results, but if we're playing unpleasing football and collecting results, then who cares? We crave European football, and to be honest, with our financial clout, and so called stars (Lukaku, Barkley etc..), we really should be looking at 7th place as our expectation and anything greater, is a huge bonus.

I'm not writing Koeman off yet, but when he signed, my initial thought was he flopped at Valencia which was a big role, and this too, is of similar stature, I wonder if maybe isn't quite the right role for him? I guess we'll find out (Oh and are fans are bad div's for having a pop at him for his christmas tree ffs).

I think the frustration is building in the fans. We've been promised this fresh 'new start', where 'nothing will be the same', yet it's identically the same. Same frustrating football (except we hoof it far more now), and same end product. Our 'Huge' summer, saw us sign Bolasie, Williams and Gueye, and whilst they've all done a job, we're still hugely under resourced.

Give it time i guess!
 
Never lose sight of the the absolute fact, that he was the first manager since Walter Smith to lead us to back to back bottom half finishes. Also those two domestic cup runs meant nothing because A. It's incredibly small time to celebrate making a semi-final and B. The minute we met a decent team we were binned out and before anyone says it, Chelsea were atrocious last year.

Im not. And as small time as it is, it was a response to playing "nice football" never got us anywhere.

For those bottom half finishes and horrible home record there was a flip side that we did get our highest ever points total, we did have 3 chances to get close to some silverware.

Finishing top 10 every year doesn't breed a successfu positivel side. Competing for trophies does.

Look at the RS. They could be absolutely bog standard, but they still get to cup semi finals, they still have a aura of winning about them.

Nice football was trying to get us out of a negative underdog status we still have. Now we've gone back to that.

Put is this way, if Martinez got us in the top 10 and had those cup runs, he'd still be in the job. If we finished 13th and won a cup, he'd be still in the job.
 

What we have seen is a bunch of poor performances, and a lack of tactics other than hoof to Rom,and hope he holds it up.
Colour me unimpressed, can't even pass a ball to each other at the moment.

Absolutely and the manager has to take a fair lot of responsibility but it does look again like the players are getting away with it. As they have done a lot in the past. Although it's nice to see people realising over half this lot of players need to do one.

I can't blame the manager for players not being able to pass to each other.

To me anyway.
 
No mate - its Walter Smiths fault.
I can see what you're saying with me blaming Martinez, but if you look at Martinez first season here we got 16 clean sheets, no matter which way you dress it up that ain't Martinez.

The point I'm making is the previous manager in that season had a long lasting influence, so why is it so ridiculous to acknowledge the previous managers role in this current mess, no way am I saying it's all his fault I'm saying it's a combination.
 
Absolutely and the manager has to take a fair lot of responsibility but it does look again like the players are getting away with it. As they have done a lot in the past. Although it's nice to see people realising over half this lot of players need to do one.

I can't blame the manager for players not being able to pass to each other.

To me anyway.
I agree but on the wages paid he should be getting something out of his current squad, sh1thouses or not. If anything our style of football has worsened, we have no plan B other than waiting till Jan. By all means we need to cut out the rot, but I'm concerned about his managerial credentials based on what we've seen so far both in performances and results.
 
I've got a horrible feeling that Moshiri was sold a pup with Koeman.

An analysis of his managerial record is not great.

Failed badly at Valencia Benfica AZ and Feyenoord.

Won titles at Ajax and PSV but anyone managing Ajax or PSV should win something - its just like Neil Lennon did with Celtic in Scotland.

Appears to have done a very good job at Southampton but in reality took a very good team and tweaked it a bit - which is exactly what Martinez did in his first season with us.

At present he shows a complete inability to motivate and organise a decent/ ok group of players.

His tactics are baffling.

Either
a. he hasn't got a clue or
b. the players refuse to play for him or
c. all the players are useless.

I suspect it is a combination of all 3.

How much more time will he be given because right now we are dropping like a stone.
 

He was never going to 'sort it' in one window. A window that ironically was WIDELY criticised by most of Koemans critics.

A good manager shouldn't have to rely on the transfer window to fix his mess. There have been clubs in much worse positions than ours and a new manager has gone in and revitalised them, it's happened on many occasions, so it's not like it was an impossible job. The excuses are weak and unjustified.
 
His wage is utterly irrelevant to the reality of what he has available. Being on more money doesn't make you capable of turning water into wine, or Jags back into a decent defender.

He gets two more transfer windows from me at least barring some complete implosion where we're down at the bottom of the table. You have to give the manager time to build a team capable of playing to his beliefs.
 
I agree but on the wages paid he should be getting something out of his current squad, sh1thouses or not. If anything our style of football has worsened, we have no plan B other than waiting till Jan. By all means we need to cut out the rot, but I'm concerned about his managerial credentials based on what we've seen so far both in performances and results.
A minimum for an Everton manager is not losing to the likes of Watford, Bournemouth and Burnley ffs.
 
A good manager shouldn't have to rely on the transfer window to fix his mess. There have been clubs in much worse positions than ours and a new manager has gone in and revitalised them, it's happened on many occasions, so it's not like it was an impossible job. The excuses are weak and unjustified.
Any examples?

I'm playing devils advocate here BTW. I'm as fed up with Koeman as most are.
 

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