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Ronald Koeman discussion

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ijjysmith said:
Sadly i despise the vast majority of our squad. When they can't be arsed then that's it for me.

Talent is useless if the effort isn't there.

And it isn't. And hasn't been for a long long time.
Click to expand...
Yeah I agree that some (but by no means all) of them are lacking effort. Again though, the manager gets paid to sort that out. I can imagine my boss's reaction if I said that my failure to hit my targets was due to my team not trying hard enough - it would probably end in him giving me a letter and 2 numbers.
 
Lanolin said:
Yeah I agree that some (but by no means all) of them are lacking effort. Again though, the manager gets paid to sort that out. I can imagine my boss's reaction if I said that my failure to hit my targets was due to my team not trying hard enough - it would probably end in him giving me a letter and 2 numbers.
Click to expand...

I have to keep repeating I'm far from convinced by the manager. But if players can't be arsed then what's he meant to do?

Ship them out. Which he can't do for a bit. And will take ages to get rid of those he wants out. And of course be replaced.

All of that doesn't help us right now though. We look broken. From top to bottom.
 
Lanolin said:
We need to get away from the idea that Koeman was left a mess. He really wasn't. He was left a squad which needed a few quality additions and some good coaching to get up sniffing around the top 4/5. Unfortunately there has been little to suggest that we've had either of those things so far.
Click to expand...

I would say two consecutive bottom half league finishes for the first time in 14 years, culminating in the worst home record in a single season in the club's entire 138 year history was 'a mess'.

The whole squad is totally overrated. We got told frequently last season it was the 'best squad we've had in 25 years'. Absolute horse manure. We have one half decent striker (Lukaku) who scores goals when he's motivated (not all the time), who cannot play up front on his own, hold the ball up, play as a lone striker and who does a fraction of the running that the best strikers in the division do.

We have a centre half in his 30s who is finished (Jags), another who has seen better days (Williams), and a full back who is still useful but the wrong side of 30 (Baines). In midfield we have a 35 year old who we rely on to play every game in order to make the midfield sort of acceptable (Barry). That's four 30+ year olds who are considered key members of the first team. It's embarrassing.

We have no back up strikers who are any good. We have a young talent in Barkley who seemed to peak about 3 years ago aged 20 and has not kicked on, criticised by multiple managers and people in the game, so not just one person's opinion.

As for the rest, there's the invisible man Mirallas, Deulofeu who is yet to have a good performance for a full 90 minutes, washed up people like Aaron Lennon, Darron Gibson, James McCarthy and loads more.

The squad needs to be totally ripped to pieces and be reconstructed.

Here's an example from history. This is the line up from Kendall's first game in charge as manager in 1981, many of the team players he inherited from Gordon Lee:

Jim Arnold
John Bailey
Billy Wright
Mick Lyons
Mick Walsh
Alan Ainscow
Asa Hartford
Trevor Ross
Mickey Thomas
Alan Biley
Peter Eastoe

Fast forward to the 1984-1987 glory years - only Bailey out of that 11 survived, and even he was soon gone, replaced by Pat Van Den Hauwe in the starting line up for most of the 84/85 season.

That's the type of wholesale change needed under Koeman, and it's going to take time.

People need to stop making excuses for the players. They're rubbish and they don't care. Get rid of most of them and start again.
 
Last edited:
DerbyshireAndHarper said:
I would say two consecutive bottom half league finishes for the first time in 14 years, culminating in the worst home record in a single season in the club's entire 138 year history was 'a mess'.

The whole squad is totally overrated. We got told frequently last season it was the 'best squad we've had in 25 years'. Absolute horses****. We have one half decent striker (Lukaku) who scores goals when he's motivated (not all the time), who cannot play up front on his own, hold the ball up, play as a lone striker and who does a fraction of the running that the best strikers in the division do.

We have a centre half in his 30s who is finished (Jags), another who has seen better days (Williams), and a full back who is still useful but the wrong side of 30 (Baines). In midfield we have a 35 year old who we rely on to play every game in order to make the midfield sort of acceptable (Barry).

We have no back up strikers who are any good. We have a young talent in Barkley who seemed to peak about 3 years ago aged 20 and has not kicked on, criticised by multiple managers and people in the game, so not just one person's opinion.

As for the rest, there's the invisible man Mirallas, Deulofeu who is yet to have a good performance for a full 90 minutes, washed up people like Aaron Lennon, Darron Gibson, James McCarthy and loads more.

The squad needs to be totally ripped to pieces and be reconstructed.

Here's an example from history. This is the line up from Kendall's first game in charge as manager in 1981, many of the team players he inherited from Gordon Lee:

Jim Arnold
John Bailey
Billy Wright
Mick Lyons
Mick Walsh
Alan Ainscow
Asa Hartford
Trevor Ross
Mickey Thomas
Alan Biley
Peter Eastoe

Fast forward to the 1984-1987 glory years - only Bailey out of that 11 survived, and even he was soon gone, replaced by Pat Van Den Hauwe in the starting line up for most of the 84/85 season.

That's the type of wholesale change needed under Koeman, and it's going to be take time.

People need to stop making excuses for the players. They're rubbish and they don't care. Get rid of most of them and start again.
Click to expand...

Barkley "peaked" last season.
 
ijjysmith said:
I have to keep repeating I'm far from convinced by the manager. But if players can't be arsed then what's he meant to do?

Ship them out. Which he can't do for a bit. And will take ages to get rid of those he wants out. And of course be replaced.

All of that doesn't help us right now though. We look broken. From top to bottom.
Click to expand...
Yeah we see it the same way in the main, but I just don't buy the argument that we somehow ended up with an entire squad full of players with a bad attitude - I mean, seriously, what are the chances of that? Players from all backgrounds, bought for different amounts by 3 different managers and yet they're all bad apples? No chance.

Managers need to be able to motivate players, and all individuals react differently to different stimuli. I'm seeing little evidence of any player reacting well to koemans methods, which concerns me.

I could replace all my staff with higher paid people and we'd probably get better results, but that wouldn't make me a good manager. I should be able to get results with the staff I have, by using them properly and motivating them. Same for Koeman, just saying he'll be ok once he's replaced the entire team is damning him with very faint praise indeed.
DerbyshireAndHarper said:
I would say two consecutive bottom half league finishes for the first time in 14 years, culminating in the worst home record in a single season in the club's entire 138 year history was 'a mess'.

The whole squad is totally overrated. We got told frequently last season it was the 'best squad we've had in 25 years'. Absolute horse manure. We have one half decent striker (Lukaku) who scores goals when he's motivated (not all the time), who cannot play up front on his own, hold the ball up, play as a lone striker and who does a fraction of the running that the best strikers in the division do.

We have a centre half in his 30s who is finished (Jags), another who has seen better days (Williams), and a full back who is still useful but the wrong side of 30 (Baines). In midfield we have a 35 year old who we rely on to play every game in order to make the midfield sort of acceptable (Barry). That's four 30+ year olds who are considered key members of the first team. It's embarrassing.

We have no back up strikers who are any good. We have a young talent in Barkley who seemed to peak about 3 years ago aged 20 and has not kicked on, criticised by multiple managers and people in the game, so not just one person's opinion.

As for the rest, there's the invisible man Mirallas, Deulofeu who is yet to have a good performance for a full 90 minutes, washed up people like Aaron Lennon, Darron Gibson, James McCarthy and loads more.

The squad needs to be totally ripped to pieces and be reconstructed.

Here's an example from history. This is the line up from Kendall's first game in charge as manager in 1981, many of the team players he inherited from Gordon Lee:

Jim Arnold
John Bailey
Billy Wright
Mick Lyons
Mick Walsh
Alan Ainscow
Asa Hartford
Trevor Ross
Mickey Thomas
Alan Biley
Peter Eastoe

Fast forward to the 1984-1987 glory years - only Bailey out of that 11 survived, and even he was soon gone, replaced by Pat Van Den Hauwe in the starting line up for most of the 84/85 season.

That's the type of wholesale change needed under Koeman, and it's going to take time.

People need to stop making excuses for the players. They're rubbish and they don't care. Get rid of most of them and start again.
Click to expand...
see above
 

A mate of mine bumped into Koeman in Chester earlier today and got chatting to him etc.

He said that Koeman openly wept as he discussed our season and that his parting words were "I know what Everton means to the fans. We will turn this around."
 
DerbyshireAndHarper said:
I would say two consecutive bottom half league finishes for the first time in 14 years, culminating in the worst home record in a single season in the club's entire 138 year history was 'a mess'.

The whole squad is totally overrated. We got told frequently last season it was the 'best squad we've had in 25 years'. Absolute horse manure. We have one half decent striker (Lukaku) who scores goals when he's motivated (not all the time), who cannot play up front on his own, hold the ball up, play as a lone striker and who does a fraction of the running that the best strikers in the division do.

We have a centre half in his 30s who is finished (Jags), another who has seen better days (Williams), and a full back who is still useful but the wrong side of 30 (Baines). In midfield we have a 35 year old who we rely on to play every game in order to make the midfield sort of acceptable (Barry). That's four 30+ year olds who are considered key members of the first team. It's embarrassing.

We have no back up strikers who are any good. We have a young talent in Barkley who seemed to peak about 3 years ago aged 20 and has not kicked on, criticised by multiple managers and people in the game, so not just one person's opinion.

As for the rest, there's the invisible man Mirallas, Deulofeu who is yet to have a good performance for a full 90 minutes, washed up people like Aaron Lennon, Darron Gibson, James McCarthy and loads more.

The squad needs to be totally ripped to pieces and be reconstructed.

Here's an example from history. This is the line up from Kendall's first game in charge as manager in 1981, many of the team players he inherited from Gordon Lee:

Jim Arnold
John Bailey
Billy Wright
Mick Lyons
Mick Walsh
Alan Ainscow
Asa Hartford
Trevor Ross
Mickey Thomas
Alan Biley
Peter Eastoe

Fast forward to the 1984-1987 glory years - only Bailey out of that 11 survived, and even he was soon gone, replaced by Pat Van Den Hauwe in the starting line up for most of the 84/85 season.

That's the type of wholesale change needed under Koeman, and it's going to take time.

People need to stop making excuses for the players. They're rubbish and they don't care. Get rid of most of them and start again.
Click to expand...
Couldn't have put it any better myself.
 

kenada_blue said:
Im not. And as small time as it is, it was a response to playing "nice football" never got us anywhere.

For those bottom half finishes and horrible home record there was a flip side that we did get our highest ever points total, we did have 3 chances to get close to some silverware.

Finishing top 10 every year doesn't breed a successfu positivel side. Competing for trophies does.

Look at the RS. They could be absolutely bog standard, but they still get to cup semi finals, they still have a aura of winning about them.

Nice football was trying to get us out of a negative underdog status we still have. Now we've gone back to that.

Put is this way, if Martinez got us in the top 10 and had those cup runs, he'd still be in the job. If we finished 13th and won a cup, he'd be still in the job.
Click to expand...

I was a huge RM fan but he took us backwards. By the very definition of the term.
 
I think he just has to do better with the players at his erm, disposal.

Make whatever personnel changes the club can afford to make, but the lack of commitment, effort, cohesion, and spirit amongst whatever combination of players selected to wear the jersey has been appalling since September.

This is what Koeman is paid to deal with.

That is before addressing anything tactical, and setting the team up with a semblance of shape and purpose.

Getting rid would be a disaster, as I think it would only happen in the midst of a continued and sustained very poor run of results and/or the club deciding later in the season that we were too close for comfort to the bottom.

Either scenario would be horrendous, absolutely sickening.

No Evertonian wants to see that.

I genuinely hope Koeman can turn things around.

A huge week lies ahead. Getting results in either/both of the next two games would be monumental, the turning point even.

Lose them, and continue with the sterile, limp, half-arsed football we have seen week in, week out lately, and something will have to be done.

We can't afford another run of 1 win in 10 games.
 
ijjysmith said:
I have to keep repeating I'm far from convinced by the manager. But if players can't be arsed then what's he meant to do?

Ship them out. Which he can't do for a bit. And will take ages to get rid of those he wants out. And of course be replaced.

All of that doesn't help us right now though. We look broken. From top to bottom.
Click to expand...
this! Same players who weren't arsed with Martinez still aren't arsed with Koeman here. Bit tiresome how everyone assumes, having a different manager will magically fix everything. I guess because it's because it's easier to blame 1 individual than admitting the problems run deeper than that
 
USABlue said:
this! Same players who weren't arsed with Martinez still aren't arsed with Koeman here. Bit tiresome how everyone assumes, having a different manager will magically fix everything. I guess because it's because it's easier to blame 1 individual than admitting the problems run deeper than that
Click to expand...
I think every Everton fan knows that this squad is woeful, tbh.
 

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